All B777 Pilots Must Read
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: kuwait
Age: 50
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All B777 Pilots Must Read
Reading In the b777 books
Maneuvers -
Non_Normal Maneuvers page : MAN.1.10
Windshear Escape Maneuver
Pilot Flying
AUTOMATIC FLIGHT
• Press either TO/GA switch**
• Verify TO/GA mode annunciation
• Verify thrust advances to GA power
• Retract speedbrakes
• Monitor system performance***
• Do not change gear or flap
configuration until windshear is no
longer a factor
• Monitor vertical speed and altitude
• Do not attempt to regain lost
airspeed until windshear is no
longer a factor
And reading the: Go–Around / Automatic Flight - System Description (page 4.20.16 )
With the first push of either TO/GA switch:
• the PFDs display roll and pitch guidance to fly the go–around
• the autothrottle activates in thrust (THR) mode for a 2,000 FPM climb
• the AFDS increases pitch to hold the selected speed as thrust increases
• if current airspeed remains above the target speed for 5 seconds, the target
airspeed is reset to current airspeed, (to a maximum of the IAS/MACH
window speed plus 25 knots).
With the second push of either TO/GA switch:
• the autothrottle activates in the thrust reference (THR REF) mode for full
go–around thrust.
So to escape the windshear in auto-flight (auto pilot connected) you should bush the TOGA switch twice to get the maximum power out of the engine not ones where you will get only 2000 FPM and that will be confused with the aircraft not able to get out of the windshear .
And if you follow what’s in the note :
Note: * Maximum thrust can be obtained by advancing the thrust levers
full forward if the EECs are in the normal mode. If terrain contact
Is imminent, advance thrust levers full forward.
Where its applies for the manual flight but assuming that a pilot do that in auto flight , the autopilot will maintain the attitude( flight director – vertical guidance ) and just increase the speed which is not the aim from the action taking ( manoeuvre aim is height and V/S to get out of the area of windshear )
Please advise your comments in what i explained as its my own interpolation only NO official comments yet , and if the aircraft in case of wind shear will auto recognize the wind shear and apply the full power .
Maneuvers -
Non_Normal Maneuvers page : MAN.1.10
Windshear Escape Maneuver
Pilot Flying
AUTOMATIC FLIGHT
• Press either TO/GA switch**
• Verify TO/GA mode annunciation
• Verify thrust advances to GA power
• Retract speedbrakes
• Monitor system performance***
• Do not change gear or flap
configuration until windshear is no
longer a factor
• Monitor vertical speed and altitude
• Do not attempt to regain lost
airspeed until windshear is no
longer a factor
And reading the: Go–Around / Automatic Flight - System Description (page 4.20.16 )
With the first push of either TO/GA switch:
• the PFDs display roll and pitch guidance to fly the go–around
• the autothrottle activates in thrust (THR) mode for a 2,000 FPM climb
• the AFDS increases pitch to hold the selected speed as thrust increases
• if current airspeed remains above the target speed for 5 seconds, the target
airspeed is reset to current airspeed, (to a maximum of the IAS/MACH
window speed plus 25 knots).
With the second push of either TO/GA switch:
• the autothrottle activates in the thrust reference (THR REF) mode for full
go–around thrust.
So to escape the windshear in auto-flight (auto pilot connected) you should bush the TOGA switch twice to get the maximum power out of the engine not ones where you will get only 2000 FPM and that will be confused with the aircraft not able to get out of the windshear .
And if you follow what’s in the note :
Note: * Maximum thrust can be obtained by advancing the thrust levers
full forward if the EECs are in the normal mode. If terrain contact
Is imminent, advance thrust levers full forward.
Where its applies for the manual flight but assuming that a pilot do that in auto flight , the autopilot will maintain the attitude( flight director – vertical guidance ) and just increase the speed which is not the aim from the action taking ( manoeuvre aim is height and V/S to get out of the area of windshear )
Please advise your comments in what i explained as its my own interpolation only NO official comments yet , and if the aircraft in case of wind shear will auto recognize the wind shear and apply the full power .
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now, I'm not going to bet my salary on this, but I understand the 'system' is a bit more intelligent than that. If you get a windshear warning the aircraft knows you don't want 2000 fpm but want full power. Therefore, I believe pressing a TOGA switch, with the windshear warning 'illuminated' gives you full power. Of course, if you decide you have windshear without the warning going off then you would have to either apply full power manually or double-press the TOGA switches.
Caution: I've never flown the 777 but believe the 744 logic is the same and I have flown that one (as well as the other 'usual suspects')
Caution: I've never flown the 777 but believe the 744 logic is the same and I have flown that one (as well as the other 'usual suspects')
Hi all, I think you all need to read how this works again.
The A/T provides thrust to achieve 2000 fpm rate of climb. It will keep adding thrust to full GA to try and achieve 2000 fpm climb. It does not need to recognise windshear it just keep adding thrust until 2000 fpm ROC is obtained.
By all means select TOGA again but it will already be at GA!
There is one sneaky point is that it is not a "double tap on the TOGA" required but a second push after it has reached reduced GA before it can go to full GA
The A/T provides thrust to achieve 2000 fpm rate of climb. It will keep adding thrust to full GA to try and achieve 2000 fpm climb. It does not need to recognise windshear it just keep adding thrust until 2000 fpm ROC is obtained.
By all means select TOGA again but it will already be at GA!
There is one sneaky point is that it is not a "double tap on the TOGA" required but a second push after it has reached reduced GA before it can go to full GA
Last edited by c100driver; 1st May 2009 at 16:53.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Far and Height
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyway as long as A/T keeps +2,000 fpm in a windshear I will be VERY happy...might even not be enough for terrain avoidance,where manually firewalling the thrust levers and flying the aircraft is the procedure...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: kuwait
Age: 50
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
Thanks all for your reply , i have a P/C in the simulator in 6-5-2009 I will ask for that to be simulated and I will advise you , thanks for your time .
Thanks all for your reply , i have a P/C in the simulator in 6-5-2009 I will ask for that to be simulated and I will advise you , thanks for your time .
Last edited by q8pilot; 2nd May 2009 at 09:52.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: kuwait
Age: 50
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HI c100driver
I know but the idea of a windshear action is to get out of there fast and quick with the maximum power and performance available , not with a limited rate of climb (2000 f/m) or an adjusted power , you can see that in the manual flight :
MANUAL FLIGHT (Non_Normal Maneuvers- MAN 1.10
• Disconnect autopilot
• Push either TO/GA switch
• Aggressively apply maximum*
thrust
• Disconnect autothrottle(s)
• Simultaneously roll wings level and
rotate toward an initial pitch
attitude of 15°
• Retract speedbrakes
• Follow flight director TO/GA
guidance (if available)
so why it should be any difference ?
And more reading the action for the PM from the same page:
Pilot Monitoring
• Assure maximum* thrust
• Verify all required actions
Have been completed and
Call out any omissions
from what I remember that the 2000/fpm was there because it always assumed that a go around is been done in an end of a flight where the aeroplane is very light , so for passenger comfort and you don’t need the aircraft to go up like a rocket ,
I know but the idea of a windshear action is to get out of there fast and quick with the maximum power and performance available , not with a limited rate of climb (2000 f/m) or an adjusted power , you can see that in the manual flight :
MANUAL FLIGHT (Non_Normal Maneuvers- MAN 1.10
• Disconnect autopilot
• Push either TO/GA switch
• Aggressively apply maximum*
thrust
• Disconnect autothrottle(s)
• Simultaneously roll wings level and
rotate toward an initial pitch
attitude of 15°
• Retract speedbrakes
• Follow flight director TO/GA
guidance (if available)
so why it should be any difference ?
And more reading the action for the PM from the same page:
Pilot Monitoring
• Assure maximum* thrust
• Verify all required actions
Have been completed and
Call out any omissions
from what I remember that the 2000/fpm was there because it always assumed that a go around is been done in an end of a flight where the aeroplane is very light , so for passenger comfort and you don’t need the aircraft to go up like a rocket ,
Last edited by q8pilot; 2nd May 2009 at 10:06.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: not telling
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have reactive windshear, after pressing TOGA,the system logic will command A/T, A/P and F/D to fly windshear escape manouevre. This will not be the case for reactive windshear.
Reacctive winsdhear - 'WINSHEAR'
Predictive windshear - 'WINDSHEAR AHEAD'
Hope this helps.
Reacctive winsdhear - 'WINSHEAR'
Predictive windshear - 'WINDSHEAR AHEAD'
Hope this helps.
Hi q8pilot,
.
If the aircraft does not achieve 2000 RATE of climb what does the thrust do? It increases until it either achieves 2000 or full GA thrust. Now I am not recommending that you leave it that late as the windshear escape is quite clear to set maximum, however if you are expecting a massive increase in thrust just by pushing the TOGA a second time after it has already achieved full GA trying to get a 2000 fpm rate of climb then you will be dissapointed.
Now the really important point that is usually missed is that if you do require full thrust then just double tapping the TOGA will not give it to you. The AT must get to the reduced thrust setting and then a second push of the TOGA will give you full GA.
So to escape the windshear in auto-flight (auto pilot connected) you should bush the TOGA switch twice to get the maximum power out of the engine not ones where you will get only 2000 FPM and that will be confused with the aircraft not able to get out of the windshear
If the aircraft does not achieve 2000 RATE of climb what does the thrust do? It increases until it either achieves 2000 or full GA thrust. Now I am not recommending that you leave it that late as the windshear escape is quite clear to set maximum, however if you are expecting a massive increase in thrust just by pushing the TOGA a second time after it has already achieved full GA trying to get a 2000 fpm rate of climb then you will be dissapointed.
Now the really important point that is usually missed is that if you do require full thrust then just double tapping the TOGA will not give it to you. The AT must get to the reduced thrust setting and then a second push of the TOGA will give you full GA.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Middle East
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
..c100 driver..et all..
It's been a few months since I practised "Windshear Escape" in the sim, however...
In a normal G/A, on the first push of TO/GA buttons, the FMA will say "THR". On the second push, the FMA will revert to "THR REF". I believe at this second push, the 2000 fpm ROC logic disappears.
In a "Windshear" G/A (where the aircraft has recognized AND given the warning of "WINDSHEAR, WINDSHEAR" ), I seem to recall that the FMA will be "THR REF" on the first push of the TO/GA button. The 2000 fpm logic is not applied. ??? The end result is, practically, the same. I think we're "splitting hairs" here.
..I have tried to find this in the FCOM, but I could not. And my memory does occasionally fail me...like it did this year on Valentines Day.
Cheers
Jinglie'd
It's been a few months since I practised "Windshear Escape" in the sim, however...
In a normal G/A, on the first push of TO/GA buttons, the FMA will say "THR". On the second push, the FMA will revert to "THR REF". I believe at this second push, the 2000 fpm ROC logic disappears.
In a "Windshear" G/A (where the aircraft has recognized AND given the warning of "WINDSHEAR, WINDSHEAR" ), I seem to recall that the FMA will be "THR REF" on the first push of the TO/GA button. The 2000 fpm logic is not applied. ??? The end result is, practically, the same. I think we're "splitting hairs" here.
..I have tried to find this in the FCOM, but I could not. And my memory does occasionally fail me...like it did this year on Valentines Day.
Cheers
Jinglie'd
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: kuwait
Age: 50
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
To you all , I just came back from my proficiency check , we tried this , the system have no logic for a wind shear its gives you 2000fpm , if you advance the throttles ( manually ,NO TO/GA switch ) the FD will maintain the 2000 fpm and the power will go for increasing the speed only and you end up with over speed , so i don’t know if Boeing missed this or they think that the 2000 is enough to get out of the windshear , and for the Takeoff you don’t need to do that as your push to the TOGA switch will do ( as it’s the second time as you bushed it in the beginning of the takeoff roll ) second time change the power from THR to THR ref .
To you all , I just came back from my proficiency check , we tried this , the system have no logic for a wind shear its gives you 2000fpm , if you advance the throttles ( manually ,NO TO/GA switch ) the FD will maintain the 2000 fpm and the power will go for increasing the speed only and you end up with over speed , so i don’t know if Boeing missed this or they think that the 2000 is enough to get out of the windshear , and for the Takeoff you don’t need to do that as your push to the TOGA switch will do ( as it’s the second time as you bushed it in the beginning of the takeoff roll ) second time change the power from THR to THR ref .
Join Date: Jun 1997
Location: auckland, new zealand
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMHO, q, you have missed a point made earlier: if you are getting 2000 fpm and the trees are getting smaller, you are quids in. Boeing may have missed the point on distributed logistics but I don't think they have missed much on this one.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear, seems some have gone into a little deep.
@Iceman, no spoilers do not auto-retract, hence the need to stow or check speedbrakes deployed or not in either the auto w/s go around case or man w/s go around case.
On a normal Go Around:
1st push of TO/GA the A/T goes into THR mode as said before. Lat and Vert tracking will be in TO/GA until another mode selected but the computated ROC will be 2000fpm.
In the Windshear Case:
you HAVE to press TO/GA to get the windshear logic from the F/D and THR REF from the A/T. It is why the QRH calls for TO/GA to be pushed!! If you feel you can maneuver away from said windshear, you ALWAYS have the option to perform a normal go around but only from a predicted windshear and not from the EGPWS instant windshear alert.
@Iceman, no spoilers do not auto-retract, hence the need to stow or check speedbrakes deployed or not in either the auto w/s go around case or man w/s go around case.
On a normal Go Around:
1st push of TO/GA the A/T goes into THR mode as said before. Lat and Vert tracking will be in TO/GA until another mode selected but the computated ROC will be 2000fpm.
In the Windshear Case:
you HAVE to press TO/GA to get the windshear logic from the F/D and THR REF from the A/T. It is why the QRH calls for TO/GA to be pushed!! If you feel you can maneuver away from said windshear, you ALWAYS have the option to perform a normal go around but only from a predicted windshear and not from the EGPWS instant windshear alert.
