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Auto Throttles.

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Auto Throttles.

Old 28th Feb 2009, 06:39
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I think some of the smaller Embraer aircraft do not have auto thrust installed but don't take that as gospel!
Not on our E145s, though it is an option I understand

fc101
E145
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 11:55
  #22 (permalink)  
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OK.....again, thank you for your replies.

As I said in a post somewhere....."You boys stick with your new fangled toys and I'll stick with my needle/ball and airspeed and hopefully, we'll all get to wherever it is we're going!"

I'll add to that: My manual throttles and 'steam-powered' gauges too!

Gee...you don't think I'm a little stubborn and close-minded, do you?!
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 14:25
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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DC-ATE,
I can see by the replies that "most" of you like your auto throttles. But, I'm affraid that you could put any airplane equipped in any manner in front of many pilots and they'd fly it anyway. That's another reason why pay scales keep going down, but that's another topic!
Not sure I follow the bit about pay. More automation lessens piloting skills which surely lessens the appeal of the job. The less interesting the job becomes, the less people will offer to do it for next to nothing (or even pay for the RH seat). Add to that the fact that passengers want to fly for nothing these days..........................
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 14:34
  #24 (permalink)  
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CHfour -

Well, you know as well as I do that there are thousands of "pilots" out there who would almost fly for nothing just to fly. And to get with an airline, they'll even PAY to do it. "Kids" coming along now days probably DO find it interesting and appealing mainly because all it is now is a computer game. They really don't have to know much about anything except how to program the computer to get them from point A to point B. Sad.....
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 14:46
  #25 (permalink)  
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I Blame GPS

I was too old to fly the line when I sorted out my career love. I'm one of those who would fly for free, just to fly. I draw the line at paying to fly, that's too needy. I stay away from the B vs. AB threads, way too ignorant other than my prehistoric skills and prejudices. I admit to being partisan, though, and DC-ATE has my vote. Training to fly a digital Beast neglects Some of Wolfgang's dogma?, a loss, in my opinion. I like DME with its built in altitude gotcha, because it makes one think and reason. Not to say that the little stick isn't a valid alternative, just a different, and very sophisticated platform. The Trend is toward complete machine dependence, the Drone is approaching. Along the way is a forever lost Spatial awareness/dependence; I listen to my Butt cheeks in a turn; rather than read digits. Just sayin'.

AF

Last edited by airfoilmod; 28th Feb 2009 at 15:44. Reason: speling
 
Old 28th Feb 2009, 15:37
  #26 (permalink)  
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airfoilmod

Thank you for your support!

Speaking of B vs AB:

You know...it's funny: I "flew by cable" for thirty years. I've been retired for almost twenty years. In that time, I've "flown by wire" only. That is to say, on a Flight Sim with joystick and keyboard. So, while I don't have as many hours on the sim as in real aircraft, I do have a little "feel" for FBW. Fortunately though, if there's a power outage or computer problem, myself and my "passengers" are not in jeopardy!
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 16:31
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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They really don't have to know much about anything except how to program the computer to get them from point A to point B.
I'm 24 and fly the Airbus for a living - does that make me one of the 'kids' to whom you refer? I find that post a little condescending to be honest. Why did I bother spending 2 1/2 years training - and still learning from my experiences all the time - when I could have just used Flight Sim to teach me to programme a box? Wish I'd thought of that...

That is to say, on a Flight Sim with joystick and keyboard. So, while I don't have as many hours on the sim as in real aircraft, I do have a little "feel" for FBW.
Are you seriously suggesting that spending a few hours on FS gives you the feel for FBW, or even comes close to replicating the handling characteristics of the real aeroplane?!
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 16:52
  #28 (permalink)  
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bjkeates -

I'm sorry if I seemed a little harsh. It was not directed at any one person. It was a generalization from what I've seen, heard, and read. Obviously, it can't and doesn't apply to everyone. The same as "my generation" was not always infallible either. As I have often said, sadly, probably well over 80% of all aircraft accidents can be traced to "pilot error" in one way or another.

If you will note...I put the word "feel" in quotes talking about the Flight Sim. There has to be a little similarity there however.

I do wish you well in your career. Just don't let that computer always tell you what to do. Stay in the loop. I flew the 737-300 briefly with its 'glass cockpit' and have seen what it does to some. They become too dependent on the computer to solve their problems.

Carry lots of fuel, avoid TRWs at all costs, and add a minimum of ten knots to everything and you'll do just fine!
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:13
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Carry lots of fuel, avoid TRWs at all costs, and add a minimum of ten knots to everything and you'll do just fine!
Not necessarily, DC. Extra fuel isn't tolerated these days without a good reason and the extra 10 kts minimum might attract a call from your company OPTIC man (or woman).
BTW what are TRWs?
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:19
  #30 (permalink)  
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CHfour

With all due respect, Sir, if you don't know what TRWs are, then perhaps you shouldn't be flying airplanes, if you do.

As to the extra fuel, there are countless reasons and if you're a pilot then you know what they are. I have never worried about being called into the office on my 'conservative' approach to flying airplanes. I think I know what I'm talking about.....do you?
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:28
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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add a minimum of ten knots to everything and you'll do just fine!
Thanks for your good wishes. I don't think, however, that my company's FDM team will take "some bloke on PPRuNe told me to do it" as an excuse for repeatedly busting stable approach parameters, nor do I like to modify the target speeds just for the hell of it! Those millions of pounds worth of computers have done their job just fine so far!
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:37
  #32 (permalink)  
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bjkeates

You're welcome.....and, I meant it!

Like everything else related to flying, you must have a reason for doing what you do. I always had a reason for my extra fuel and knots. It wasn't arbitrary. As you gain experience, you'll find out. I only hope it isn't too late. And, you can't worry about what someone else might say.....IF you think you're doing the right thing.

A good example of an extra ten knots would be the AA 191 accident in O'Hare. Had the Captain not REDUCED to V2+10 (or whatever their engine-out speed was supposed to be) they most likely would have been able to return and land. That wasn't the only thing that went wrong though.

Anyway, we digress.

Enjoy!
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:38
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Just adding 10 knots to everything will not only get the companies safety department on your behind very fast indeed (in fact, you will bust your line release check), but the authority as well as it can and will breach the certified performance for a plane.

And quite a lot of extra every single flight will in some companies get you fired very soon and in others get you into another week of fuel saving training nowadays. Remember, FOQA catches everything you do on board and all the rest is put into computers as well and will be noticed.

And by the way, what is TRW?
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:40
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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DC-ATE,
Dont bother trying to explain.These new guys are a totally different breed.Computer junkies who would ground the aircraft without an FMC or AT.Not only can they not fly a damn without the AFDS,they're pretty cocky too(this pseudo-CRM bs)...2 1/2 years on the scarebus and think they know it all.TRW?Look it up sonny..you never know you may learn something.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 17:47
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I can imagine myself getting grounded very quickly if I just decide to add 10kts on to everything the computer has quite competently calculated. Also, as mentioned before, company flightplans generally add alot of extra, if you have a reason to take extra fuel, no problem, but you can't just add more for the hell of it.

By the way, what's a TRW?
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:05
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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With all due respect, Sir, if you don't know what TRWs are, then perhaps you shouldn't be flying airplanes, if you do.
I have over 20000 hrs , FBC and FBW, and I dont know what TWRs are?
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:07
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Been flying a commercial jet before i could legally buy a beer.And about the same time as I could drive a car!
A decent ILS or CANPA approach flown 'manually' ie without an A/P or A/T is probably the most economical approach,besides being a very comfortable one( both for the PM and the invaluable passenger,who pays for the bread on out tables ).When i say 'flown manually',I of course mean flown manually by a competent pilot with average flying skills.My first airplane as PIC was the 732.And I think I have still to experience a similar joy of flying.Never spilt a drop off of the full coffee mug we sipped during our landings.And then,ever since its been the 733,734,735,320,321,738,739,739ER,300-600R,744 and now the 777(all versions).All as PIC.And most as a trainer.DC-ATE said he felt uncomfortable due to the constant hunting of the engines.SURE,he's damn right.I FOR ONE feel the same...!! He must be sitting in a 777! Whilst I can confidently say that the 777 IS god's gift to the pilot,it does have its quirks.The 734 had 22k engines,320-24k,738-26k,744-53k.But the 777 has 115K GIANTS for engines my friend! Imagine a less than perfect pilot flying a manual(no A/P but WITH A/T) ILS in less than perfect conditions in a 733/4.And then imagine the same in a 777.Engine respone to his imperfections in terms of pitch adjustments and/or speed loss and gain would be far far quicker in the 733 than in the 777.Mass of airplane AND engine bypass ratio and therby engine response/spool up time alone will dictate that agility of the A/T system in correcting the anomaly,therby minimising the need to constantly 'hunt' for the desired speed/pitch.
Now,couple the same A/T with the A/P on both airplanes.You will notice a WORLD of a difference.No hunting,no lagging.Cause the same computers that give the input to the A/P to follow an ILS for example,give the same input to both the A/T's via the EEC's within the same nano second!No discrepancy,no lag,and no hunt.....!! Net result pax comfort and a PM with lower BP after touchdown.
Wanna do a great job of smoothening out your slight imperfections on the ILS?? Fly the manual approach WITHOUT the A/T.Use manual thrust instead.You'll notice a marked improvement.But as soon as you go automatic,use FULL automatics and revert to your role as 'Manager'. Leave the 'Pilot' at home.
That's the trick I try and use as often as I can.Unfortunately my company SOP's dictate the use of the 777 A/T system.And I shan't argue with that ever! Follow the SOP's to the T and you shall live to be the cliched 'Old,bold pilot'.....Now THAT'S my mantra for you guys out there.
And watch those BRT's for bird ingestion(s)......!! ...
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:16
  #38 (permalink)  
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Attitude, Human

Nothing personal, but the a/c in question possesses many of the Traits disdained by the twenty-somethings "flying it". Arrogant, Proven, Brook no deviations, No questions (My computers are quite competent, thank you.)
"I have three ways to fly, get right with that, etc." It is that regimen that irks those who flew before the digital age. Not having experienced that, youngsters compare seasoned flyers with their a/c, one approvingly, one disdainfully? If I were to fly with a Captain possessed of the (human) traits the Bus displays, I would not be comfortable, see?

AF
 
Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:32
  #39 (permalink)  
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I am utterly amazed that we have several pilots (supposedly) that do not know what a TRW is. Apperently they never check the weather before they take off into the unknown.
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Old 28th Feb 2009, 18:37
  #40 (permalink)  
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Denti

re. the +10: read what I wrote.

If you don't know what a TRW is, then I suspect you don't fly airplanes, or if you do, you don't check the weather.

Last edited by DC-ATE; 28th Feb 2009 at 19:23.
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