747-8 Family Details (From 747 Chief Engineer)
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747-8 Family Details (From 747 Chief Engineer)
Boeing's Chief Engineer on the 747, Michael Teal believes the airplane has another 40 more years service ahead of it and remains confident the -8F/-8I will be successful.
I talked with him in Seattle and he revealed some interesting insight into the 747-8 program - would be interesting to hear back from the engineers amongst us here to get their perspective, particularly those who have worked on previous 747's.
I talked with him in Seattle and he revealed some interesting insight into the 747-8 program - would be interesting to hear back from the engineers amongst us here to get their perspective, particularly those who have worked on previous 747's.
The sales record of the B748i to pax airlines begs to differ with his belief!
Only Luffti is planning to operate on Airline Pax ops at this stage, and the aircraft has been available for deposits for two years!
Only Luffti is planning to operate on Airline Pax ops at this stage, and the aircraft has been available for deposits for two years!
Last edited by c100driver; 18th Feb 2009 at 00:36.
You mean how the next new generation of airliners will be a long alloy (now carbon) tube, sweptback wings, and underslung engines?
No, wait, that's been going for about 50 years.
Sorry to disappoint you mate, but there's only three really major improvements in airliner technology in the last 50 years, and that's engines & avionics, and to a lesser degree materials.
There's not much else that's new.
No, wait, that's been going for about 50 years.
Sorry to disappoint you mate, but there's only three really major improvements in airliner technology in the last 50 years, and that's engines & avionics, and to a lesser degree materials.
There's not much else that's new.
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18 wheeler
undertsanding of aerodynamics???? computer modelling????? these are two other elements perhaps that have changed??
I agree with rainboe. I work in construction and know that people like to work in buildings that have been desgined recently (on the whole) not a building desgined 80 years ago.
the king is dead long live the king (a380)
undertsanding of aerodynamics???? computer modelling????? these are two other elements perhaps that have changed??
I agree with rainboe. I work in construction and know that people like to work in buildings that have been desgined recently (on the whole) not a building desgined 80 years ago.
the king is dead long live the king (a380)
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Wishful thinking from a hardly unbiased opinion!
No mate- 80 years service doesn't cut it in a modern world!
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Why wouldn't it reach 80? The DC-8 will at least make 60. Unlike the DC-8, there are no replacements announced for the 747F. The A380 will never make a general freighter, because 1. Only airports with scheduled A380F service will purchase the speciallized loading equipment needed to load the upper deck (and using the lower deck only would not compete very well with the 747), and 2. For reasons that utterly elude me, Airbus put the flight deck on the centre deck, rendering it cost prohibitive to ever make a nose loader out of it. Certainly, the frieghter of choice for the forseeable future will be the 777F, but there will be a market for a few 747Fs for a long long time yet.
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For the 747-8I, it still has the opportunity to become a converted freighter once its usefulness as a pax airplane ends...that may aid its slow trek to the 80-year mark!
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For reasons that utterly elude me, Airbus put the flight deck on the centre deck, rendering it cost prohibitive to ever make a nose loader out of it.
Who is to say the A380 won't clean up the future market? It will do the job more economically than a 747-8, which I believe is unlikely to see the light of day.
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Boeing boeing ........
I don't doubt that computer modelling will and does help, but remind me what the main problems faced by the A380 were caused by ........ oh, that's right, incompatibility in the systems between France and Germany, if I'm not mistaken.
Still some way to go, I think.
I believe the B787 fuselage join problems may have a similar history.
undertsanding of aerodynamics???? computer modelling????? these are two other elements perhaps that have changed??
Still some way to go, I think.
I believe the B787 fuselage join problems may have a similar history.
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Rainboe, wasn't the 747 originally designed for a USAF requirement which the C5 Galaxy ultimately won?
As for the 380F, was involved with my former company in the "customer requirements" meetings with Airbus. They basically refused to listen to what freighter people wanted. We want to load 10ft high ULDs (as on the 747), they offered 8ft. Nose-door? "You don't need it!!!" (oh really?). Large engine carriage (eg 747/777/330 size), silence. Vast empty weight to carry 20-25T more than a 747F. Hmmm.
As for the 380F, was involved with my former company in the "customer requirements" meetings with Airbus. They basically refused to listen to what freighter people wanted. We want to load 10ft high ULDs (as on the 747), they offered 8ft. Nose-door? "You don't need it!!!" (oh really?). Large engine carriage (eg 747/777/330 size), silence. Vast empty weight to carry 20-25T more than a 747F. Hmmm.
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The A380 doesn't lend itself to a nose door. Double decker loading is impractical. The 747 is fortunate it converts superbly to a freighter, but it will not last forever.
Looking at the 747-8, I cannot see LH, the only pax customer, proceeding. Where does it leave the program- a cargo only aeroplane? At a time when air cargo has collapsed? The program is heading towards a freeze, followed by cancelation. LH will probably order 777-300 to replace the 747-8. Order will be restored!
Looking at the 747-8, I cannot see LH, the only pax customer, proceeding. Where does it leave the program- a cargo only aeroplane? At a time when air cargo has collapsed? The program is heading towards a freeze, followed by cancelation. LH will probably order 777-300 to replace the 747-8. Order will be restored!
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The program is heading towards a freeze, followed by cancelation.
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Interesting. I still feel this recession will be long and cruel. The market for the plane is being destroyed. In good times it might have made it, but I can't see it surviving now, with cheap grounded ex-pax 747-400s ripe for conversion, the collapse of the cargo market and collapse of new aircraft orders as the recession bites. Nobody is buying anything.
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I've been in the freight biz for 20 years now & I have never seen it this bad. The loads out of the far east on which we all depended are drying/have dried up. As for converted pax 400s rainboe, I'm tending to agree with you. The -8F is a fantastic aircraft have no doubt about it but I wonder.... say $40-$50M to acquire and convert a pax aircraft or $200M for the new one.
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The market for the plane is being destroyed. In good times it might have made it, but I can't see it surviving now, with cheap grounded ex-pax 747-400s ripe for conversion,
Otherwise we'd be seeing or would have seen a slew of 747-400 conversions which have had flat interest in the last 5 or more years, despite the 747-8F being available too - and instead, orders for the latter remain firmly intact.
The freight segment is "in the toilet", but as with every economic cycle, it wont last forever - and in the absence of any true large rival freighter, the 747-8F has the market to itself.
The bell tolls for the B747-8i ?
From Flight International 9 Feb 09
I agree with Rainboe on this one that the B748i is a dead man walking with only one airline customer for 20 airframes plus some VIP jets. Boeing will never get a return on its investment in developing the jet. However the B748F probably has a better than 50/50 chance with 106 orders, but it depends on how fragile the order book is.
Chief Excutive Jim McNerney warns that the continuation of the program should not be seen as a forgone conclusion: "we still see a viable business proposition here. Now obviously if we ever got to a point where we didn't, we'd have to work with our customers to come up with another answer"
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Both 747-8F/747-8I have orders totalling 106.
In terms of cost, the 747-8I is in many ways similar to the 777-200LR. Both are derivatives of more popular siblings and were hit during downturns in travel.
Granted, the 777-200LR hasnt set the world alight, but its snared more orders than the rival A340-500 and theres every possibility that plenty of 747-400 operators (who are not yet A380 customers) may opt for the 747-8I.
Until Boeing terminates the -8I, speculating about its appeal is a matter of opinion/difference
In terms of cost, the 747-8I is in many ways similar to the 777-200LR. Both are derivatives of more popular siblings and were hit during downturns in travel.
Granted, the 777-200LR hasnt set the world alight, but its snared more orders than the rival A340-500 and theres every possibility that plenty of 747-400 operators (who are not yet A380 customers) may opt for the 747-8I.
Until Boeing terminates the -8I, speculating about its appeal is a matter of opinion/difference
