No FLARE during CAT3

[Dan Winterland]

Did you do the approach in CWS? The only aircraft I flew with CWS (747-300 with CWS in manual mode) would require all three autopilots to be switched from Command to Manual which clearly wasn't going to happen at such short notice.

Cat IIIb in a 744 with a DH of 0' FLARE GREEN comes in at 52' RA which is below MAB. You have to let it land. Ouch!

[411A]

Did you do the approach in CWS?

Negative....in Command.
However, IF flare was not captured at 50 feet Radio height, the pitch reverted to CWS, and a manual flare could be accomplished.

It does indeed work as advertised.

Proviso: Aircraft delivered to BA might well have been different...as there were several other differences with aircraft on the British civil register.

[Penworth]

Denti

Its interesting that your ops manual says to announce No Flare. In my company (737), our ops manual says:

If FLARE not annunciated, PM calls "Go Around"
IF RETARD not annunciated, PM calls "No Retard"

So for us, there's no ambiguity - lack of flare annunciation = go around.

[Denti]

We actually trained both cases, PICs discretion, go-around and continued landing. At least in the simulator both work out if you have the required minimum visual segment, never had a no flare in real life though. However since we started that fail operational stuff i haven't seen a no flare in the simulator either.

[411A]

Fail/Operational started with the 'ole L1011, and indeed, it works as advertised.
In over (approximately) 600 autolands with the 'ole TriStar, all have been right on the money.
No exceptions.

A superb airplane, make no mistake.
An oldie, but very good.

Just so you younger folks will know...proper automation started with Lockheed, long ago.
With proper RollsRoyce engines...the best in the business.

[mutley320]

FCOM reference

Boroda, your looking for a reference and you mention you may have "adequate" visual reference, airbus gives you an option !
FCOM 4.05.70 " failures and associated actions; above/below 1,000ft."
It's in the pretty picture diagrams, CatII, CatIII with dh,CatIII no dh.

apologies, missed first page of posts, see you found reference.

[Port Strobe]

If this were to happen in a boeing, couldn't you just give the yoke a tug, or are the autopilot 'motors' too powerful??

Can only speak for 737NG here but wouldn't be surprised to find the same logic in other models. In approach mode pulling on the control wheel will disconnect the autopilot rather than perform a mode reversion to control wheel steering in the appropriate channel(s). When both autopilots are engaged and below c400' RA there's a hell of a lot of nose up trim loaded up so pulling firmly on the yoke would probably be the last thing you'd want to do, it would make more sense to brace your arm for the large out of trim force then press the disconnect button with your thumb and release some of the forward pressure you're applying in order to flare, however whether or not a manual landing is practical seems reasonably subjective.

[gubaclagan]

Cat III

411A
I agree with you regarding TriStar L-1011 Autoland Fail Safe System. Have done the Autoland with the "Goldwire Wire Check" (Scheduled Maintenance Program) from G/S capture to Flare then to Rollout and it does llike it should be. Perfect simulation of CAT III.