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Rivet Arrival Sydney

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Rivet Arrival Sydney

Old 8th Dec 2008, 18:14
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Rivet Arrival Sydney

I would appreciate any help any ATCers or pilots could give regarding how to handle the Rivet Arrival into Sydney, Australia. Our crews on our FMS airplanes have been given vectors off the Rivet, then back on, then back off, and numerous speed restrictions and then instructed to "resume the Rivet arrival." On occasion we are left hanging too high and too fast to get below 10,000 feet in time to slow and then meet the Tammi restriction at or below 9,000 feet. If we could publish an altitude/speed "gate" along the way above 9,000 feet prior to Rivet it might help us put the airplane in position to make the restriction at Tammi. Many thanks for your help.
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Old 8th Dec 2008, 18:46
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Presumably, all this is to allow the QF that was behind you, to land ahead of you ...

Nothing changes ... Aussie Rules, mate ... !!

JD
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Old 8th Dec 2008, 18:55
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Ahhhhhh, I see. Many thanks.

Cheers
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Old 8th Dec 2008, 20:23
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Next time just tell the controller you can't make the requirement and let them sort it out, they put you in that position in the first place.
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Old 8th Dec 2008, 22:51
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I would appreciate any help any ATCers or pilots could give regarding how to handle the Rivet Arrival into Sydney, Australia.
Did you also ask this question on the PPRuNe ATC forum?
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Old 8th Dec 2008, 23:32
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Just tell ATC that you can't meet the requirement and they will accomodate.
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Old 8th Dec 2008, 23:51
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On occasion we are left hanging too high and too fast to get below 10,000 feet in time to slow and then meet the Tammi restriction at or below 9,000 feet.
Happens a lot to me. Most of the time it takes too long to organise a waiver to the height restriction, approach would have to co-ordinate with departures etc. However a request to maintain speed until just after tammi is usually available, and lets you wash the speed off in the flat section of the star
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Old 9th Dec 2008, 14:26
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Beware a favourite ATC trick in SYD is as the 0600 end curfew time is approaching, and you have started the approach, they may clear you to turn and lock onto the ILS at a time that would have you landing before the cutoff. Presumably after landing, they will then tell you that you have violated the curfew and will be reported. On a couple of occasions I have had to decline an approach because of curfew reasons, to the consternation of the copilots. Bit sad really. Long ago, they used to clear us to land on the intersecting runway at a prohibited time. I can't understand that sort of behaviour, but it is not unusual.
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Old 9th Dec 2008, 15:56
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I would appreciate any help any ATCers or pilots could give regarding how to handle the Rivet Arrival into Sydney, Australia.

Aw, shucks. Just treat me as you would anyone else.
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Old 10th Dec 2008, 10:51
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According to my ATC cousins, the reason for the requirement to be at or below 9,000 at Tammi is to put a departure over the top of you. If you cannot make it and don't tell them, it causes a certain amount of tension. Where some of my workmates have come unstuck is remembering that if told to resume after being vectored off you must still meet the requirement. Last time I got caught tight, I asked for above 250kt below 10,000, they gave it to me and it all came home to mother. Sometimes I think ATC gets so used to the locals who have no problems, they forget a Long Haul crew might do it once a year and have an aircraft harder to slow down and get down. Not to mention every time I go to SYD these days I've been up all night and subject to brain failure.
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Old 10th Dec 2008, 13:29
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Where some of my workmates have come unstuck is remembering that if told to resume after being vectored off you must still meet the requirement
It's also important to confirm that the STAR has been cancelled if you are vectored off-track. If there's any doubt, I always ask for confirmation.
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Old 10th Dec 2008, 21:43
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Many thanks for your comments. This all helps a great deal.

Globally
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