Rudder Pedals on Arbus
Join Date: Apr 2004
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feet off the floor, fully on pedals.try disconnecting autobrake in max crosswind and youre slowing down. still have a big boot of rudder in so can ony disconnect with the non working foot....now youre manual brakes but to brake evenly youve gotta lift that hard working boot up the pedal and onto the brakes-always results in reduced boot pressure and a a swing which is far from comfortable. school of hard knocks. feet off the floor
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I am an Airbus Training Captain and have observed numerous techniques in this department. The first thing to say to ex-Boeing pilots is that you are no longer flying a Boeing! If I ever fly a Boeing the first thing I will do is ditch all my Airbus techniques, then find out how Boeing pilots with considerable experience on type do it - I will then emulate them. I would suggest to you that is pretty good advice for coming onto the Airbus. Therefore the advice of people like Fantom strikes me as probably worth listening to, rather than some 'good ideas' you have from previous types. No one really cares how you did it on a Boeing or on an MD-80 or on a Tristar or anything else. Old dogs can learn new tricks and there are a lot of new tricks to learn!
In terms of what is written down, this is what the good book says in the Airbus FCTM (July 2008) Normal Operations Pre Start P15/16:
"The rudder pedals must then be adjusted to ensure the pilot can achieve both full rudder pedal displacement and full braking simultaneously on the same side. The armrest and the rudder pedals have position indicators. These positions should be noted and set accordingly for each flight."
I would suggest that to achieve full rudder pedal displacement and full braking simultaneously on one side requires that your feet are off the floor and on the pedals. It is therefore implicit in that statement that you should operate with your feet off the floor and on the pedals. The vast majority of experienced Airbus pilots follow that technique. My own observations of training and debriefing following unsatisfactory crosswind landings or take-offs have invariably found that those who have difficulty maintaining the cenreline are those who put their heels on the floor. That is not to say that this was the only issue, but I rarely see anyone who has their feet up in the manner so well described by others here having directional control issues. When in Rome do as the Romans do........
In terms of what is written down, this is what the good book says in the Airbus FCTM (July 2008) Normal Operations Pre Start P15/16:
"The rudder pedals must then be adjusted to ensure the pilot can achieve both full rudder pedal displacement and full braking simultaneously on the same side. The armrest and the rudder pedals have position indicators. These positions should be noted and set accordingly for each flight."
I would suggest that to achieve full rudder pedal displacement and full braking simultaneously on one side requires that your feet are off the floor and on the pedals. It is therefore implicit in that statement that you should operate with your feet off the floor and on the pedals. The vast majority of experienced Airbus pilots follow that technique. My own observations of training and debriefing following unsatisfactory crosswind landings or take-offs have invariably found that those who have difficulty maintaining the cenreline are those who put their heels on the floor. That is not to say that this was the only issue, but I rarely see anyone who has their feet up in the manner so well described by others here having directional control issues. When in Rome do as the Romans do........
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floor or pedals
Interesting post...somehow the "bus" always manages to stir things up.....i was in the same quandary while undergoing my LOFT earlier this year where ex - Boeing guys insisted we keep our feet on the floor and trust the Autobrakes ( but what about a RTO below 72kts! ) while the bus drivers told us otherwise...i continue to keep my feet on the pedals, felt a bit strange initially but am used to it now...
I would be interested to know what situations you can think of that would require maximum and prompt application of full brakes when aborting below 72 kts!! The `swing` should be removed by closing the thrust levers promptly.
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low speed RTO's and usage of reversers
hi meiklour
just to share my experience of low speed RTO's due eng failure esp in low vis conditions ( in the box ofcourse ), they can be quite vicious as one tends to use the reversers after bringing the thrust levers to idle...and that can lead to a lot of asymmetry..i found my nose wheel almost out of the runway!
we used minimal or no reversers the next time and a little bit of nose wheel steering to stay on the centreline.
cheers
just to share my experience of low speed RTO's due eng failure esp in low vis conditions ( in the box ofcourse ), they can be quite vicious as one tends to use the reversers after bringing the thrust levers to idle...and that can lead to a lot of asymmetry..i found my nose wheel almost out of the runway!
we used minimal or no reversers the next time and a little bit of nose wheel steering to stay on the centreline.
cheers
Scorpilot,
Thanks for your reply. I have experienced one RTO at 60kts on a A340 TOGA departure and yes, the swing is extreme but soon resolved by closing of the thrust levers. During my 38 years of airline flying I have done probably 20+ RTO`s and apart from the one above, they have all been for other than engine failure. ( a couple for an engine not spooling up properly) Your second sentence sums things up well - respond in a fashion commensurate with the speed achieved. This is why most airline have a Vo policy - ie. a stop speed for minor issues which will never be a stopping problem.
We are digressing from the original thread a bit namely when stopping on a Bus from a significant speed the AUTOBRAKES do an excellent job of delivering balanced braking and there should not be a rush to `stamp on the pedals` and get into manual braking mode especially when the speed is not too critical.
Thanks for your reply. I have experienced one RTO at 60kts on a A340 TOGA departure and yes, the swing is extreme but soon resolved by closing of the thrust levers. During my 38 years of airline flying I have done probably 20+ RTO`s and apart from the one above, they have all been for other than engine failure. ( a couple for an engine not spooling up properly) Your second sentence sums things up well - respond in a fashion commensurate with the speed achieved. This is why most airline have a Vo policy - ie. a stop speed for minor issues which will never be a stopping problem.
We are digressing from the original thread a bit namely when stopping on a Bus from a significant speed the AUTOBRAKES do an excellent job of delivering balanced braking and there should not be a rush to `stamp on the pedals` and get into manual braking mode especially when the speed is not too critical.
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Good words from NSF, even though he is a TC. 
FWIW, I was taught the following Golden Rules - in this order: (and I'm ex Boeing)
1. Use the tray
2. NO BOEING
3. If in doubt, let go.
Works well for me. Feet up off the floor.
nurj
FWIW, I was taught the following Golden Rules - in this order: (and I'm ex Boeing)1. Use the tray
2. NO BOEING
3. If in doubt, let go.
Works well for me. Feet up off the floor.
nurj
The presentation “Lessons from Incidents & Accidents” gives instances of the problem of inadvertent brake application during takeoff.
Although the concluding recommendation is for ‘feet down’ for takeoff, this might be better worded as heels on the floor, but with feet ready to input rudder or brakes as required.
An issue often overlooked when changing SOPs is that the design and certification requirements may have made assumptions about foot positioning to control the swing from an engine failure, or applying brakes during an RTO. A change of SOP could invalidate these assumptions and thus result in reduced performance.
Although the concluding recommendation is for ‘feet down’ for takeoff, this might be better worded as heels on the floor, but with feet ready to input rudder or brakes as required.
An issue often overlooked when changing SOPs is that the design and certification requirements may have made assumptions about foot positioning to control the swing from an engine failure, or applying brakes during an RTO. A change of SOP could invalidate these assumptions and thus result in reduced performance.
