Command Decisions-what would you do?
Most, if not all of my bird strikes have been on landing.
If you suspect birds are in the area then turn on all your landing lights.
Just like when driving your car the birds see the lights and move. ( most of the time, sometimes they move the wrong way )
If you suspect birds are in the area then turn on all your landing lights.
Just like when driving your car the birds see the lights and move. ( most of the time, sometimes they move the wrong way )
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I had a case when passing 5000 feet in the climb during night , speed 250 and all lights on we managed to hit 2 birds on the nose of the a/c. We checked everything imaginable from speed indications, pressurisation, engine parameters, unusual noise , vibrations, even looked through the windscreen with the flash light.All was normal! Couldn't tell a lot about the size of the birds due to darkness. We decided to continue only to discover upon arrival that the radome was cracked so a/c grounded.
Guess we were not that lucky
Guess we were not that lucky
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This really is an interesting read....thanks for all your inputs. Great to hear all your experiances.
On the topic of the birdstrikes, is it not most company's policies that if a bird strike is suspected, the aircraft is grounded until an engineer inspects the aircraft? So in the case of even a small bird or two hitting the aircraft with no apparant damage, on landing the aircraft is grounded until such an inspection is carried out?
Seems a little un-neccessary if it is just a small bump with evrything else normal.
On the topic of the birdstrikes, is it not most company's policies that if a bird strike is suspected, the aircraft is grounded until an engineer inspects the aircraft? So in the case of even a small bird or two hitting the aircraft with no apparant damage, on landing the aircraft is grounded until such an inspection is carried out?
Seems a little un-neccessary if it is just a small bump with evrything else normal.
Bottums Up
I've had so many bird strikes, that for a period the Ops people called me a chick magnet, and they weren't being complementary. Every single bird strike was in an aeroplane with the lights on, so I don't believe that lighting has much influence on the birds. Where's CanuckBirdstrike when one wants him?
Interestingly, I've only had one bird strike in the three years I've been flying the 717.
As for actions: I've rejected one takoff, bird down #4 @ < 80 kts. Other takeoff strike actions have depended on engineering support at next stop and advice from ATC as to evidence on the runway. Most strikes have been on landing. Very few have been felt or heard, I've just seen the birds in close proximity to the aircraft.
Interestingly, I've only had one bird strike in the three years I've been flying the 717.
As for actions: I've rejected one takoff, bird down #4 @ < 80 kts. Other takeoff strike actions have depended on engineering support at next stop and advice from ATC as to evidence on the runway. Most strikes have been on landing. Very few have been felt or heard, I've just seen the birds in close proximity to the aircraft.
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Capt Claret:
Sorry been off doing day one of recurrent simulator.
While you may be a "chick magnet" lights are a proven strategy to reduce the chance of birds strikes - not radar as we have disccussed on this forum many times. Without a lot of details on the actual events I can't offer any reasoned explanation other than bird type and altitude coupled with aircraft phase of flight and wind can have a huge effect on how birds detect aircraft and react.
On the issue of what to do after a bird strike, there are no firm answers. One thing to bear in mind is that if you have taken a bird in to an engine and there "appears" to be no damage, be very careful, there are documented cases of the damage not being detectible and then the engine failing at a later time or when inspected, damage requiring repair being found. When in doubt I will return for an inspection.
The same concept can apply to airframe damage. You may not think that the airframe is damaged, but it is. What is most interesting is that on fly-by-wire aircraft there is no direct feedback to the controls from the surfaces and they may be damaged or experiencing flutter from other damaged airframe parts and you cannot detect it. This type of event has already occurred with an A320 after sustaining FOD to the stabilizer on takeoff.
The key word is caution. Aircraft and engine certification standards for bird strikes are very basic and do not contemplate encounters with very large birds (above 8 lbs), multiple larger birds (above 4 lbs) or the damage/failure of multiple systems. This can occur when you encounter a flock of gulls or waterfowl.
Two things I always remember:
1. Be very cognizant of bird activity and delay approaches or takeoffs if required.
2. Don't fly above 250 knots below 10,000 feet. The machinery was not really designed for bird impacts at high speed and the higher you go the bigger the bird you are likely to hit. Impact force goes up proportionally to weight and as the square of the speed.
Bird strikes have the potential to put an aircraft into a damage scenario that will test your decision making, CRM and pilot handling skills to the maximum. Past events have include multiple engine damage and failure along with pitot static damage or engine failure, slat damage and loss of hydraulics. Events that we do not train for on a regular basis and are not directly part of the certification matrix.
Off for dinner and then studying before round two early tomorrow morning.
Sorry been off doing day one of recurrent simulator.
While you may be a "chick magnet" lights are a proven strategy to reduce the chance of birds strikes - not radar as we have disccussed on this forum many times. Without a lot of details on the actual events I can't offer any reasoned explanation other than bird type and altitude coupled with aircraft phase of flight and wind can have a huge effect on how birds detect aircraft and react.
On the issue of what to do after a bird strike, there are no firm answers. One thing to bear in mind is that if you have taken a bird in to an engine and there "appears" to be no damage, be very careful, there are documented cases of the damage not being detectible and then the engine failing at a later time or when inspected, damage requiring repair being found. When in doubt I will return for an inspection.
The same concept can apply to airframe damage. You may not think that the airframe is damaged, but it is. What is most interesting is that on fly-by-wire aircraft there is no direct feedback to the controls from the surfaces and they may be damaged or experiencing flutter from other damaged airframe parts and you cannot detect it. This type of event has already occurred with an A320 after sustaining FOD to the stabilizer on takeoff.
The key word is caution. Aircraft and engine certification standards for bird strikes are very basic and do not contemplate encounters with very large birds (above 8 lbs), multiple larger birds (above 4 lbs) or the damage/failure of multiple systems. This can occur when you encounter a flock of gulls or waterfowl.
Two things I always remember:
1. Be very cognizant of bird activity and delay approaches or takeoffs if required.
2. Don't fly above 250 knots below 10,000 feet. The machinery was not really designed for bird impacts at high speed and the higher you go the bigger the bird you are likely to hit. Impact force goes up proportionally to weight and as the square of the speed.
Bird strikes have the potential to put an aircraft into a damage scenario that will test your decision making, CRM and pilot handling skills to the maximum. Past events have include multiple engine damage and failure along with pitot static damage or engine failure, slat damage and loss of hydraulics. Events that we do not train for on a regular basis and are not directly part of the certification matrix.
Off for dinner and then studying before round two early tomorrow morning.
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Congrats on the upcoming command.Here's my two cents worth.
Sometimes one gets a failure after take off ( any systems malfunction) thats not "too" serious. Example s single hydraulic system failure or a flap or a gear problem.You would be surprised how many elect to enter a holding pettern (close to departure airport) whilst solving the problem , talking to company etc etc.
Given the minimum amounts of fuel we carry this could really snooker you if you were to say "solve" the problem , as you may effectively have thrown away your destination.
What I propose is to ( terrrain permitting) continue on route( off course assuming its not time critical problem) , working checklists , liasing with company bla bla. If it then is resolved , on you go all the way to destination. If it then requires a return then ,now is when you divert.
Another obvious one ( or so I thought) that I have seen in the simulator is configuration. When you have abnormals , this is not the time to plug a hole in one and achieve the stabilisation criteria exactly at the gate.
Slow it down and drag it in ( again it depends on certian checklist requirements) , but in general , drag the bastard in , so you get that out of the way and you have one less thing to worry about.
Know when to throw away the rules. I have seen candidates in the simulator with an unextinguishable engine fire after take off (followed by a visual circuit to land )really get it wrong by trying to follow the rules. , eg they overshoot centreline turning final or find themselves a little high on final. So they try "correct" it whilst comlplying with max allowable sink rates and bank angles , only to be way high at short final or badly positioned to land. I reckon throw the BS out the window ( if its burning) , crank it over , push it down ( I dont care if its shouting at me) and do what is required to "Fix" it as much as possible.
so you have broken every rule to arrive in the slot at 500 feet or later. But in a position after a crap approach to make a safe landing. ( this is never trained).
Another not so abvious one is to learn a couple of " canned" PA announcements. The last thing you want is to mumble on to your pax about all the technical details bla bla BS. Just have your " abnormal" PA in your mind and blast it off almost automatically.
on the ground with doors open , delegate , delegate , delegate. let the groundstaff handle the ground stuff.
Ultimately though on the day you are dammed if you do dammed if you dont. Thats the burden of command.
Best of luck.
Sometimes one gets a failure after take off ( any systems malfunction) thats not "too" serious. Example s single hydraulic system failure or a flap or a gear problem.You would be surprised how many elect to enter a holding pettern (close to departure airport) whilst solving the problem , talking to company etc etc.
Given the minimum amounts of fuel we carry this could really snooker you if you were to say "solve" the problem , as you may effectively have thrown away your destination.
What I propose is to ( terrrain permitting) continue on route( off course assuming its not time critical problem) , working checklists , liasing with company bla bla. If it then is resolved , on you go all the way to destination. If it then requires a return then ,now is when you divert.
Another obvious one ( or so I thought) that I have seen in the simulator is configuration. When you have abnormals , this is not the time to plug a hole in one and achieve the stabilisation criteria exactly at the gate.
Slow it down and drag it in ( again it depends on certian checklist requirements) , but in general , drag the bastard in , so you get that out of the way and you have one less thing to worry about.
Know when to throw away the rules. I have seen candidates in the simulator with an unextinguishable engine fire after take off (followed by a visual circuit to land )really get it wrong by trying to follow the rules. , eg they overshoot centreline turning final or find themselves a little high on final. So they try "correct" it whilst comlplying with max allowable sink rates and bank angles , only to be way high at short final or badly positioned to land. I reckon throw the BS out the window ( if its burning) , crank it over , push it down ( I dont care if its shouting at me) and do what is required to "Fix" it as much as possible.
so you have broken every rule to arrive in the slot at 500 feet or later. But in a position after a crap approach to make a safe landing. ( this is never trained).
Another not so abvious one is to learn a couple of " canned" PA announcements. The last thing you want is to mumble on to your pax about all the technical details bla bla BS. Just have your " abnormal" PA in your mind and blast it off almost automatically.
on the ground with doors open , delegate , delegate , delegate. let the groundstaff handle the ground stuff.
Ultimately though on the day you are dammed if you do dammed if you dont. Thats the burden of command.
Best of luck.
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On the topic of the birdstrikes, is it not most company's policies that if a bird strike is suspected, the aircraft is grounded until an engineer inspects the aircraft? So in the case of even a small bird or two hitting the aircraft with no apparant damage, on landing the aircraft is grounded until such an inspection is carried out?
As for lights...they certainly haven't prevented any of my bird strikes...including ones that took out the illuminated lights. Or the two significant ones that occured above 10,000', at night.
I concur with your post. Bird strikes can and do cause major damage.
I had a JT8D destroyed on a B737 - take-off
A Conway on a B707 totalled on approach - engine continued to run but the throttle only produced a change in EGT and not RPM
Multiple birds (12 +) through #2 and #4 CFM56 on an A340 resulting in Vibs of 7.5 and 9.5 respectfully. The N1 blades on one engine were turned through 90degrees for their last 12ins. N1 appeared normal but the `puff` was definitely not there!
Faulty ADC caused by the TAT probe being `full of squashed bird`
Most interestingly, has a strike passing 15,000ft at 320kts on a B747-200 at NIGHT near Bahrain. It hit above my window with a colossul bang a large dent later found. I don`t know what type of large bird flys at these height.
I had a JT8D destroyed on a B737 - take-off
A Conway on a B707 totalled on approach - engine continued to run but the throttle only produced a change in EGT and not RPM
Multiple birds (12 +) through #2 and #4 CFM56 on an A340 resulting in Vibs of 7.5 and 9.5 respectfully. The N1 blades on one engine were turned through 90degrees for their last 12ins. N1 appeared normal but the `puff` was definitely not there!
Faulty ADC caused by the TAT probe being `full of squashed bird`
Most interestingly, has a strike passing 15,000ft at 320kts on a B747-200 at NIGHT near Bahrain. It hit above my window with a colossul bang a large dent later found. I don`t know what type of large bird flys at these height.
