A320 landing light inoperative
Thread Starter
Beau_Peep
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: India
A320 landing light inoperative
folks, I have never landed with landing lights inoperative at night.. other day, i found before a night flight that landing lights were unserviceable, i told AME to repair it but he insisted he would release the flight under MEL... I was equally adamant, finally after 1hr delay he gave up and changed the bulbs...
I really wonder how it would feel to land at night without landing lights... especially when it is raining over the field...
can you throw some light out of your experience..
cheers
I really wonder how it would feel to land at night without landing lights... especially when it is raining over the field...
can you throw some light out of your experience..
cheers
PPRuNe supporter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,676
Likes: 0
From: Planet Earth
Training
Not really as hard as you think, using your peripheral vision and looking adequately down the runway, you can get quite good at it, military crews do it all the time, my flight instructor turned the landing light off on my first night flight to get me acquainted when it burns out. 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
From: N33 24.7 E36 30.8 E 36 30.8
well that would be interresting to say the least...i'm tempted to try it out at least during the last stages of the landing tomorrow..dunno if i will have the guts to complete the landing without them
anyway... will let you know about the results but i'm sure it will be extremely uncomfortable
anyway... will let you know about the results but i'm sure it will be extremely uncomfortable
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 6
From: La Belle Province
re the OP - ALL the landing lights were inop, and you were released for a night flight???
I don't have access to an A320 MMEL (TC hasn't put the airbus MMELs online yet) but a quick check of ours indicates that all lights inop is only permitted as follows:
I'm a bit perplexed that anyone managed to get all the lights inop onto the MEL.... if I read your post correctly.
I don't have access to an A320 MMEL (TC hasn't put the airbus MMELs online yet) but a quick check of ours indicates that all lights inop is only permitted as follows:
All may be inoperative provided aircraft is not operated at night.
Joined: Jun 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,187
Likes: 59
From: OZ
I'm with my fellow madman.
Can the MEL really be read to say that no landing lights are required for night flight?
If so then get rid of the little buggers at once and reduce weight as well as complexity.
All the Boeings I've operated over many years required at least a couple for night work.
Can the MEL really be read to say that no landing lights are required for night flight?
If so then get rid of the little buggers at once and reduce weight as well as complexity.
All the Boeings I've operated over many years required at least a couple for night work.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 210
Likes: 20
From: Denver, Colorado, USA
Faa A320 MMEL
FYI:
40-02
Landing Lights (installed) 2 (required)1 Notes: One may be inoperative provided nose, taxi and takeoff lights operate normally.
May be inoperative for day operations.
Retraction Systems (installed) 2 (required) 0 Notes:(O) May be inoperative provided a 1% fuel penalty is applied for each extended light.
40-02
Landing Lights (installed) 2 (required)1 Notes: One may be inoperative provided nose, taxi and takeoff lights operate normally.
May be inoperative for day operations.
Retraction Systems (installed) 2 (required) 0 Notes:(O) May be inoperative provided a 1% fuel penalty is applied for each extended light.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 609
Likes: 1
From: Around the world.
I have landed a 320 multiple times with one of the two landing lights under the wing inop, didn't really notice much of a difference. That was just because I was working on a wet lease with 2 aircraft, one had the light inop, so flew it quite often; released as per MEL.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 14
Likes: 1
From: eire
Well said Lee, I'm not a fan of being TOLD what to do. That said, I am surprised that the a/c was gonna be released with all the landing lights u/s. Any mel I've operated off wouldn't allow release with two landing lights u/s on one side,esp for night flight.
Just curious, were ALL the landing lights u/s?
Just curious, were ALL the landing lights u/s?
Last edited by ready eddy; 9th May 2008 at 21:43. Reason: just a question
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: australia
a320 landing light inop
all lights inop =no release for night flt....well thats how it is over here but yes if you spoke to the LAME in a nice way he/she might of change a LAMP its not a bulb they live in the cabin
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 0
From: uk
Landed at night with LDG LTs not ON many times, usually because I switched them off for approach to minima in poor vis and forgot to switch them on when visual.
Usually results in a bit of a crunch on touchdown but no problem apart from embarrassment.
Usually results in a bit of a crunch on touchdown but no problem apart from embarrassment.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 9
From: Switzerland, Singapore
I'm with Gary Lager. It's not so much of a problem, depending generally on your landing technic. Some people, especially young/unexperienced pilots seem to have problems without. It all depends how much of depth you can perceive if your tarmac is not illuminated in front of you. Me I use the radio altimeter count down a lot, so I don't really need the visual cues of an approaching tarmac that much. It's maybe a thing you have to train an odd time, first with only one landing light out, then you get the feeling.
Fly safe,
Dani
Fly safe,
Dani
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 0
From: uk
Try looking farther down the runway next time.
...usually because I switched them off for approach to minima in poor vis
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 196
Likes: 6
From: usa
If I'm not mistaken, the A320 has NOSE landing lights as well, correct?
So why not just use the nose landing lights at night with the MAIN landing lights inop (under the wings.) We used to do this on the MD80. Some captains did not like using the wing retractable/extendable landing lights at night because of the vibration one felt in flight. So they would just use the nose landing light, which was plenty bright when selected to the BRIGHT position. Plus the wing landing lights did not illuminate the runway that well, since they were so far outboard under the wing tips.
Just an idea.
73
So why not just use the nose landing lights at night with the MAIN landing lights inop (under the wings.) We used to do this on the MD80. Some captains did not like using the wing retractable/extendable landing lights at night because of the vibration one felt in flight. So they would just use the nose landing light, which was plenty bright when selected to the BRIGHT position. Plus the wing landing lights did not illuminate the runway that well, since they were so far outboard under the wing tips.
Just an idea.
73
Only half a speed-brake
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,459
Likes: 136
From: Commuting not home
Contrary is true. Runway turn-off, taxi, and TO LT. Some of us may use the TO LT for landing, but it is not a manufacturer recommended procedure and indeed has no benefits (after a small tech/academic discussion).
FD (the un-real)
FD (the un-real)
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 9
From: Switzerland, Singapore
Why contrary? He says the same as you. Is this some sort of a double negation which I don't understand?
As stated above, if you have lost one landing light, you have to have the nose landing light - and I guess you would use it.
Why wouldn't it help, FD?
Dani
As stated above, if you have lost one landing light, you have to have the nose landing light - and I guess you would use it.
Why wouldn't it help, FD?
Dani
Only half a speed-brake
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,459
Likes: 136
From: Commuting not home
If I'm not mistaken, the A320 has NOSE landing lights as well, correct?
Why contrary?
....
Why wouldn't it help, FD?
....
Why wouldn't it help, FD?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=321207
Perhaps I am mistaken, then we need some tech spec, where is IFixPlanes when you need him?
If one LDG lt is inop, surely it is mandatory to have both taxi and TO serviceable. Once at the MMEL, it is worth mentioning that for u/s TO lt, there is no restriction.