Taxi restrictios A-320 ser
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Europe
Taxi restrictios A-320 ser
Hi dear, All!
Does your airlines SOP have any restrictions about taxi by F/O? I.e. in Aeroflot, F/O are allowed to taxi only at straight part of taxiway, and they are not allowed to taxi at apron.
Cheers!
Does your airlines SOP have any restrictions about taxi by F/O? I.e. in Aeroflot, F/O are allowed to taxi only at straight part of taxiway, and they are not allowed to taxi at apron.
Cheers!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 51
From: Blighty (Nth. Downs)
Many years ago, my copilot missed a turn at night in Lusaka, while I had my head down. We soon realised we were in a cul-de-sac, and not able to turn round. Embarrassing, and guess who got most of the blame?
Despite that bad experience, I think it is advisable for our future captains routinely to practise all aspects of taxiing, where possible.
Despite that bad experience, I think it is advisable for our future captains routinely to practise all aspects of taxiing, where possible.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 97
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From: I know EXACTLY where I am..
Taxi Restrictions
My last outfit would only allow the Capting to taxi. Never understood why..
As FO, the most fun accorded to me on the ground was - provided all the work on the FMGC and briefings and such was done - to call out directions, in the style of a rallye copilot : next on the left, going into sharp right, then long straight ahead and so on
OORW
As FO, the most fun accorded to me on the ground was - provided all the work on the FMGC and briefings and such was done - to call out directions, in the style of a rallye copilot : next on the left, going into sharp right, then long straight ahead and so on
OORW
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
From: UK
To Chris Scott:
To whom do you think the blame should have been apportioned then? Surely the blame follows the line of command, and those who are charged with taking the responsibility - and those who take home the bigger bucks. Sorry to be so blunt, but if you were the skipper, you have a duty to take care of your airplane whether it is on tarmac or in the air.
To whom do you think the blame should have been apportioned then? Surely the blame follows the line of command, and those who are charged with taking the responsibility - and those who take home the bigger bucks. Sorry to be so blunt, but if you were the skipper, you have a duty to take care of your airplane whether it is on tarmac or in the air.
Joined: Feb 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,427
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From: Correr es mi destino por no llevar papel
I'm strictly prohibited from taxiing by company SOP, and if my company finds out that I taxied around CDG, on single engine, around a magic roundabout, up to a parking position, they'd re-open the GULag, just to send my capt and me to permanent vacation in Siberia. Of course, I didn't do that but I found three-twenty very easy to taxi, despite the last thing I taxied was C-172, 8 years ago.
In most companies flying the bus, PF does taxiing.
In most companies flying the bus, PF does taxiing.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 51
From: Blighty (Nth. Downs)
Quote:
To Chris Scott,
To whom do you think the blame should have been apportioned then? Surely the blame follows the line of command, and those who are charged with taking the responsibility…
[Unquote]
Thank you, sooty615, we are obviously in complete agreement on this one. You have elaborated the very point that I foolishly assumed everyone would realise I was making.
The captain always “carries the can”. You cannot have authority without responsibility; or vice-versa. This has to be understood by commanders in all walks of life. It also helps if copilots are aware of it.
The issue here is: which tasks and decisions should captains delegate to their first-officers? Things can go wrong very rapidly during taxiing, but so they can during an engine failure on take-off. I am uneasy that, in an airline that limits copilots to taxiing in straight lines (or bans it completely), there may also exist a culture that the captain should take over handling the aircraft immediately any problem arises in the air. This can be a very bad mistake, for a variety of reasons. There is also the practical issue of depriving future captains of the chance to develop safe and smooth taxiing skills, and to receive feedback on them.
One thing my experience in Lusaka (over twenty years ago) did ram home to me was the importance of planning and discussing the likely taxi route(s) to and from runways away from base, and including this as an item in take-off and descent briefings. It also taught me to improve my PNF lookout, and temporarily to suspend the checklist before an expected turn. I am firmly of the opinion that the copilot’s “leg” should give her/him as much an opportunity as possible to practise future command skills; including all aspects of aircraft handling.
Finally, unless things have changed since I retired, many stand guidance systems assume the aircraft is being driven from the left-hand seat; so you need to be prepared for the best time to hand over.
To Chris Scott,
To whom do you think the blame should have been apportioned then? Surely the blame follows the line of command, and those who are charged with taking the responsibility…
[Unquote]
Thank you, sooty615, we are obviously in complete agreement on this one. You have elaborated the very point that I foolishly assumed everyone would realise I was making.
The captain always “carries the can”. You cannot have authority without responsibility; or vice-versa. This has to be understood by commanders in all walks of life. It also helps if copilots are aware of it.
The issue here is: which tasks and decisions should captains delegate to their first-officers? Things can go wrong very rapidly during taxiing, but so they can during an engine failure on take-off. I am uneasy that, in an airline that limits copilots to taxiing in straight lines (or bans it completely), there may also exist a culture that the captain should take over handling the aircraft immediately any problem arises in the air. This can be a very bad mistake, for a variety of reasons. There is also the practical issue of depriving future captains of the chance to develop safe and smooth taxiing skills, and to receive feedback on them.
One thing my experience in Lusaka (over twenty years ago) did ram home to me was the importance of planning and discussing the likely taxi route(s) to and from runways away from base, and including this as an item in take-off and descent briefings. It also taught me to improve my PNF lookout, and temporarily to suspend the checklist before an expected turn. I am firmly of the opinion that the copilot’s “leg” should give her/him as much an opportunity as possible to practise future command skills; including all aspects of aircraft handling.
Finally, unless things have changed since I retired, many stand guidance systems assume the aircraft is being driven from the left-hand seat; so you need to be prepared for the best time to hand over.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 274
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From: Front right seat
My company allow F/O's to taxi. In fact it is comany SOP that the F/O will taxi on his leg. If can't trust a pilot to taxi (a very basic skill) how on earth do you expect him fly the damn thing. I won't even go down the road of expecting the F/O to take command in an incapacitation but not allowing him to taxi. Pathetic
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 388
Likes: 2
From: Floating around the planet
In the company I fly for the captain is always the PF on ground. I agree with that.
Some Cop`s have enough experience to do that but the less experienced ones are sometimes out of the loop till line up.
What about the argument that cops are able to fly but not taxi??
At first not always they are able to fly. The second is that in my opinion it`s easier navigate around the airport with all the navigation data inserted on the FMGS than on the ground when Dead Reckon NAV is required.
Cheers
Some Cop`s have enough experience to do that but the less experienced ones are sometimes out of the loop till line up.
What about the argument that cops are able to fly but not taxi??
At first not always they are able to fly. The second is that in my opinion it`s easier navigate around the airport with all the navigation data inserted on the FMGS than on the ground when Dead Reckon NAV is required.
Cheers
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 51
From: Blighty (Nth. Downs)
Out of the loop...
Quote:
In the company I fly for the captain is always the PF on ground. I agree with that.
Some Cop`s have enough experience to do that but the less experienced ones are sometimes out of the loop till line up.
[Unquote]
Words (almost) fail me.
If you are talking about a public-transport operation, and particularly one flying passengers on a $60m aeroplane; please could you explain why any copilot would be so inexperienced or poorly trained that he/she is "out of the loop"?
At what stage does the copilot come back into the loop; during the take-off, or later?
In the company I fly for the captain is always the PF on ground. I agree with that.
Some Cop`s have enough experience to do that but the less experienced ones are sometimes out of the loop till line up.
[Unquote]
Words (almost) fail me.
If you are talking about a public-transport operation, and particularly one flying passengers on a $60m aeroplane; please could you explain why any copilot would be so inexperienced or poorly trained that he/she is "out of the loop"?
At what stage does the copilot come back into the loop; during the take-off, or later?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Taxying
The aircraft has just landed.
Female controller to Captain:"Turn right on taxiway A, then left on taxiway C".
Captain turns left on taxiway B, and comes nose to nose with another aircraft.
Controller: "What are you doing down there? Don't you know B from C? Do I have to come down there and teach you the alphabet? It'll take me an hour to straighten out this mess!"
Pause, then Captain: "Weren't we married once?"
Female controller to Captain:"Turn right on taxiway A, then left on taxiway C".
Captain turns left on taxiway B, and comes nose to nose with another aircraft.
Controller: "What are you doing down there? Don't you know B from C? Do I have to come down there and teach you the alphabet? It'll take me an hour to straighten out this mess!"
Pause, then Captain: "Weren't we married once?"
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,114
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From: UK
We have had people joining our outfit having never being allowed to touch the throttles so no taxiing doesn't surprise me. As alluded to above it makes you wonder what will eventuate should the capt become incapacitated one day. The only restrictions we have are a x-wind limitation on landing for newbies and the skipper will always do a Cat II or III landing. Having said that we get some sim time to do low viz stuff just in case you end up being single pilot and need to get back in from your departure airfield.
