Rejected Take Off Announcement Policies.
Thread Starter
Rejected Take Off Announcement Policies.
If a high speed rejected take off takes place one of the first actions the captain should do after stopping, is to make an appropriate announcement over the PA system. This may include a warning for the cabin crew to standby in case an evacuation is necessary. Of course the operator will have published the wording of the announcement depending on circumstances.
One of the common announcements adopted is "This is the captain speaking. Cabin crew to your stations." - meaning this may be the real thing and standby for urgent news.
Presumably however, the cabin crew will have already been seated at their emergency stations so it begs the question is that particular wording superfluous? I was wondering what announcements Ppruners use in their operations along the lines of that already mentioned. On a similar subject it is probable that the crew will advise ATC that the aircraft is aborting. One operator uses two situations. A low speed below 100 knots is called as "stopping" to ATC while a high speed abort above 100 knots is called as "Emergency stopping". The latter is designed to alert fire and rescue services for obvious reasons. Seems a good idea. Interested in constructive comments in terms of appropriate simulator training for rejected take off situations.
One of the common announcements adopted is "This is the captain speaking. Cabin crew to your stations." - meaning this may be the real thing and standby for urgent news.
Presumably however, the cabin crew will have already been seated at their emergency stations so it begs the question is that particular wording superfluous? I was wondering what announcements Ppruners use in their operations along the lines of that already mentioned. On a similar subject it is probable that the crew will advise ATC that the aircraft is aborting. One operator uses two situations. A low speed below 100 knots is called as "stopping" to ATC while a high speed abort above 100 knots is called as "Emergency stopping". The latter is designed to alert fire and rescue services for obvious reasons. Seems a good idea. Interested in constructive comments in terms of appropriate simulator training for rejected take off situations.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our company have no 'standard' wording, it is left up to the Commander, due to various scenarios possible.
I had an abort in January (although a low speed one...85 knots due to deflated nose wheel tires), and the PA announcement was... "passengers and cabin crew, remain seated and standby for further instructions."
Then, a cabin interphone contact was made with the CC supervisor, asking him to report to the FD.
Years ago at a previous company, one of our Captains had an abort for generally the same reason (tires) and upon stopping the aircraft, and before an announcement was even possible, one CC opened an aft door and started an evac anyway, without any (stated latter) reason except to say...'well,it seemed like a good idea.'
Some CC need clear and concise instructions least they go off on a tangent and cause rather severe problems.
Further, it's not generally the quality of training provided to the CC that sometimes causes problems either, it many times is that odd one or two that think they know better (the 'don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up', syndrome).
I had an abort in January (although a low speed one...85 knots due to deflated nose wheel tires), and the PA announcement was... "passengers and cabin crew, remain seated and standby for further instructions."
Then, a cabin interphone contact was made with the CC supervisor, asking him to report to the FD.
Years ago at a previous company, one of our Captains had an abort for generally the same reason (tires) and upon stopping the aircraft, and before an announcement was even possible, one CC opened an aft door and started an evac anyway, without any (stated latter) reason except to say...'well,it seemed like a good idea.'
Some CC need clear and concise instructions least they go off on a tangent and cause rather severe problems.
Further, it's not generally the quality of training provided to the CC that sometimes causes problems either, it many times is that odd one or two that think they know better (the 'don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up', syndrome).
If the Cabin Crew are strapped in, then they're not standing by their respective doors, and thus aren't at their stations. If the intention is to taxi clear of the runway after the stop, then you need a different PA to ensure that they remain seated and don't open a door in the excitement of the moment.
If the published call is "Stopping" then using an airline specific different call may cause confusion - do you want to declare an emergency or not? The tower would probably call the fire services for a high speed stop in any event, I would think.
If the published call is "Stopping" then using an airline specific different call may cause confusion - do you want to declare an emergency or not? The tower would probably call the fire services for a high speed stop in any event, I would think.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my company, initial announcement after an RTO is:
"Cabin crew and passengers remain seated"
Obviously this call must be followed by another one, but it will prevent an unwanted evacuation...
We'll sort things out on the flight deck, and decide what will be the next course of action.
Next PA announcement wil either be:
"Operations normal"
or: "Evacuate evacuate"
"Cabin crew and passengers remain seated"
Obviously this call must be followed by another one, but it will prevent an unwanted evacuation...
We'll sort things out on the flight deck, and decide what will be the next course of action.
Next PA announcement wil either be:
"Operations normal"
or: "Evacuate evacuate"
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: cloud 9
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Checkboard' I think you misunderstand the term "standby" which in this case means "be ready for further instructions", not go stand beside the door. As for your observation that ATC would alert the emergency services anyway, sadly many RTO's have gone unnoticed by ATC and at major airports.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the "Crew on stations" call is intended to cover all accident/incident scenarios and lets the cc know that the fd are alive, thinking and doing their job.
In the absence of any call it is not unreasonable, in many scenarios, for the cc to initiate an evacuation.
This call should prevent those premature or unwanted decisions, but leave the cc on alert until stood down or an evacuation is ordered. Either way if the "On Stations" call is made they know that one or the other is coming, and the fd are not incapacitated.
In the absence of any call it is not unreasonable, in many scenarios, for the cc to initiate an evacuation.
This call should prevent those premature or unwanted decisions, but leave the cc on alert until stood down or an evacuation is ordered. Either way if the "On Stations" call is made they know that one or the other is coming, and the fd are not incapacitated.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ***
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At my company we are supposed to call out "Attention Crew, on station" twice in any situation that may lead to an evacuation. This will make CAs take the best position for an evacuation (like going to the overwing exits, for CA2 on CRJ), but also to report important observations to the flight deck (smoke fire Iín/outside the a/c). It can be followed by "passenger evacuation" or "cancel alert", also spoken twice.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my company cpt say "Attention Crew Attention Crew!" That means, girls (and/or lads), remain seated and wait for instructions... It is always told to them that there might elapse a few minutes from attention crew to EVACUATE or "disregard attention crew" because the pilots are evaluating the need of an evacuation and also because once the desicion to evacuate has been made, there's a checklist to read. If we dont make any announcemente the risk is that they might think that something happened to us and make their own desicions...
What experienced cabin crew usually say (specially those who have been on a rejected take off) is that from the moment they hear the "attention crew" announcement until something really happens, the cabin crew become quite nervous and minutes stretch so much that it seams like ages before they hear something else...
What experienced cabin crew usually say (specially those who have been on a rejected take off) is that from the moment they hear the "attention crew" announcement until something really happens, the cabin crew become quite nervous and minutes stretch so much that it seams like ages before they hear something else...
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Over the clouds
Age: 65
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The best procedures IMHO that I have used, were at my previous company. “Cabin crew normal operation” when no evacuation is expected, or “Cabin crew to your positions” when you are not sure or evacuation is expected. Every rejected TO I have made the crew was expecting the worst with that scary face to the pax until the announcement.
Tailwinds
Tailwinds
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USofA
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm aware of a fomer large US airline that would make an announcement from the cockpit "Easy Victor,Easy Victor" when they wanted an evac to commense. I believe the idea was to let the cabin crew get into position prior to having the pax storm the exits, thus leaving a degree of organization to the impending evac. Not saying that this was the best solution, but just another example.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They want us to say something like, "Stop, remain seated!" Repeat 3 times. The most important thing is to say something affirmative to remain seated. It is important to NOT say something like, "Do not evacuate!" Passengers will only hear, "Evacuate." That is a problem.
PPRuNe supporter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An RTO can get very busy, making only one command whether emergency or non-emergency simplifies things (Cockpit speaking, cabin crew to stations), less memory items which leads to less mistakes, then, if no evacuation is needed, "Cabin Crew and Passengers Remain Seated", drill over.
To stations would be to take positions at the door I think?
To stations would be to take positions at the door I think?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: A oneworld lounge near you
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a side issue, I was watching an RTO in the third world recently. ATC refused to allow rescue and fire fighting vehicles onto the runway because the captain had not asked for it. It is good training for RFFS to chase the aircraft anyway and to inspect the runway after a technical RTO (not an ATC spacing mixed mode issue). In this case, all that happened was ATC launched the next departure as soon as the RTO had cleared the runway.
Please remember it can be quite hard for flight crew on some types to know if they have a brake/wheel/tyre fire or not. Might be better to stop somewhere and let the RFFS staff have a look before taxiing back to stand/holding point?
Please remember it can be quite hard for flight crew on some types to know if they have a brake/wheel/tyre fire or not. Might be better to stop somewhere and let the RFFS staff have a look before taxiing back to stand/holding point?
