Circling to land + G/A
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Joined: May 2006
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From: 3 NM on final!
Circling to land + G/A
Just assume we are flying and ILS APP for RW25 and then circling to land for RW07. When we are in final for RW07, we decide to make a go around for any reason. In this case, would you perform the published missed approach procedure for ILS RW25 or any other published G/A procedure for any other app. for RW07 (VOR, NDB...)?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: UK
DC-8, you should fly the published missed approach for the Instrument Procedure you are flying. Therfore fly the missed approach for ILS 25 in your case. This can involve 'unusual' turns, however the missed approach procedure for 07 could be 'climb straight ahead' With other traffic coming down the ILS 25, that could prove interesting!
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: London,England,U.K.
Assume that you were being followed by another aircraft say 15 minutes behind you. when you make your missed approach from 07 that other aircraft is at maybe 8 miles on the ils for 25.
Now you can see why you need to make a u turn, visually manuevering on the same side of the airport as your cirle to land (usually) and follow the 25 missed approach..
Now you can see why you need to make a u turn, visually manuevering on the same side of the airport as your cirle to land (usually) and follow the 25 missed approach..
Joined: Jan 1999
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From: north of barlu
A lot of theory !
No one above has said anything that is wrong but the GA for the runway that you have made the approach to might well not be appropriate.
I can think of a few airfields that use CTL because you cant make a direct approach to the runway using "normal" practice, with these airfields a normal GA during the CTL will put you into high ground.
I can think of a few airfields that use CTL because you cant make a direct approach to the runway using "normal" practice, with these airfields a normal GA during the CTL will put you into high ground.
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: UK
PANS-OPS Vol 1 S4 Ch 7 is quite specific:
7.4 MISSED APPROACH PROCEDURE WHILE CIRCLING
7.4.1 If visual reference is lost while circling to land from an instrument approach, the missed approach specified for that particular procedure must be followed. The pilot will make an initial climbing turn toward the landing runway and overhead the aerodrome. At this point, the pilot will establish the aircraft climbing on the missed approach track.
7.4 MISSED APPROACH PROCEDURE WHILE CIRCLING
7.4.1 If visual reference is lost while circling to land from an instrument approach, the missed approach specified for that particular procedure must be followed. The pilot will make an initial climbing turn toward the landing runway and overhead the aerodrome. At this point, the pilot will establish the aircraft climbing on the missed approach track.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: here and there but mostly lgw
Aand C , A rather unsubtle attempt to highlight your worshipful cat c status eh?
To compare proceedure /trg specific cat 3 airports to the overwhelming majority of airports that the rule applies is a disingenious way to highlight your superior special circling skills.So in this case you are wrong. the airfields you mention are exceptions to the rule. Now wind your neck in and get back to having your bollocks felt at security.
To compare proceedure /trg specific cat 3 airports to the overwhelming majority of airports that the rule applies is a disingenious way to highlight your superior special circling skills.So in this case you are wrong. the airfields you mention are exceptions to the rule. Now wind your neck in and get back to having your bollocks felt at security.
Joined: Jan 1999
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From: north of barlu
Farty
Me....... I'm just an umble flight engineer trying to point out that it is always worth reading the small print. As for security no MOR's this month.........Yet!
Any way are you looking forward to your bright future?
Any way are you looking forward to your bright future?
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,648
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From: UK
the airfields that spring to mind first are LPMA and LFLB
At Chambery ILS 18 circling for 36, you can make a right turn from downwind to establish on the ILS 18 missed approach, which happens to be on a track of 357. At Funchal on VOR 23 circling for 05, a right turn from downwind to establish on the missed track of 139 should also work.
Joined: Jan 1999
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From: north of barlu
I'm not sure that turning toward the runway from downwind at LPMA is such a good idea, with the runway being so near the high ground.
From down wind I think that a turn out to sea away from the high ground direct towards FUSIL is the safest way to go, once the turn towards the runway has started you are commited to that action and this should only be done if you are 100% sure that you can stay visual. If at that stage a GA is required then you must contunue the turn to pick up the track towards FUSIL but I would want to stay in visual contact with the island untill I was heading out to sea.
At Chambery the turn towards the runway is undoubtedly the thing to do and then follow the 18 backcourse. but this is not altogether following the 18missed aproach as you are only following the second half of it but may be this is splitting hairs.
From down wind I think that a turn out to sea away from the high ground direct towards FUSIL is the safest way to go, once the turn towards the runway has started you are commited to that action and this should only be done if you are 100% sure that you can stay visual. If at that stage a GA is required then you must contunue the turn to pick up the track towards FUSIL but I would want to stay in visual contact with the island untill I was heading out to sea.
At Chambery the turn towards the runway is undoubtedly the thing to do and then follow the 18 backcourse. but this is not altogether following the 18missed aproach as you are only following the second half of it but may be this is splitting hairs.
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Egcc
A & C
I think you are splitting hairs. At FNC and CMF you ARE following the missed approach for the runway that you did the approach to. As you point out, it's just using common sense for the first bit to establish safely on that missed approach. Done both.
The rule is as already stated by many; follow the missed approach for the instrument approach you flew. Oh, but let's add the little caveat that DON'T compromise the safety of the aircraft whilst establishing yourself back on that procedure.
What works best is to fully brief the G/A actions at various stages of the circling manoeuvre to ensure, as ever, that you are both singing from the same song sheet before you get there.
PP
Edited to add, what are your thoughts about ILS 18 at Chambery in the dark and followed by a G/A? Interesting when they have another aircraft following you down the ILS eh?
I think you are splitting hairs. At FNC and CMF you ARE following the missed approach for the runway that you did the approach to. As you point out, it's just using common sense for the first bit to establish safely on that missed approach. Done both.
The rule is as already stated by many; follow the missed approach for the instrument approach you flew. Oh, but let's add the little caveat that DON'T compromise the safety of the aircraft whilst establishing yourself back on that procedure.
What works best is to fully brief the G/A actions at various stages of the circling manoeuvre to ensure, as ever, that you are both singing from the same song sheet before you get there.
PP
Edited to add, what are your thoughts about ILS 18 at Chambery in the dark and followed by a G/A? Interesting when they have another aircraft following you down the ILS eh?
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: UK
I have no doubt ATC are prepared for that and have a 'cunning plan'. Similar situation at INN where I understand approaches are sequenced to allow one g/a back up the ILS. Personally I try to avoid CMF especially at night
(Not having a lot of success......)
(Not having a lot of success......)
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
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From: north of barlu
Pete
ATC at Chambery will only put one aircraft on the ILS at a time for this very reason, they also like the CTL as once the aircraft on approach is downwind for 36 they can get an aircraft departed, this slightly increases the flow rate.
Night is going to be interesting!
Night is going to be interesting!