Loss of Pressure
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Loss of Pressure
I have a very serious question:
My wife is a FA for and airline that flies 50 seaters. As they were taking off today there was a loud whistle in the cabin. She called the flight deck to tell them and they said that they could hear it too. After getting some info it was determined that it was probably the door seal. The CA said that the pressure doesn't look "too bad" so they would continue on and to let him know if anything changed. By the time she got up to make her announcement her words were slured and she could barley get through it. She started feeling extremely sick and upon landing had to go lay down. She is now in the hotel with a severe headache and still feeling sick.
My question, could this have been a loss of pressure in the cabin?
What else should/could she have done to make the pilots understand they could be serious?
Should she notify anyone that this happened?
At the time she says that she did not even think of hypoxia but now that she is at the hotel and can think back she is wondering if it could be. She does not think that the CA acted wrong in anyway because she did not tell him she was sick until they were back on the ground (again she did not connect the two).
So what do ya think!
My wife is a FA for and airline that flies 50 seaters. As they were taking off today there was a loud whistle in the cabin. She called the flight deck to tell them and they said that they could hear it too. After getting some info it was determined that it was probably the door seal. The CA said that the pressure doesn't look "too bad" so they would continue on and to let him know if anything changed. By the time she got up to make her announcement her words were slured and she could barley get through it. She started feeling extremely sick and upon landing had to go lay down. She is now in the hotel with a severe headache and still feeling sick.
My question, could this have been a loss of pressure in the cabin?
What else should/could she have done to make the pilots understand they could be serious?
Should she notify anyone that this happened?
At the time she says that she did not even think of hypoxia but now that she is at the hotel and can think back she is wondering if it could be. She does not think that the CA acted wrong in anyway because she did not tell him she was sick until they were back on the ground (again she did not connect the two).
So what do ya think!
Warning Toxic!
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Door seal- leak can be contained. Automatic warning and emergency systems would have stopped an excessive loss of pressure. The pilots would have checked the pressurisation condition. Did she ask them if there was anything unusual afterwards?
The cabin crew can become convinced there is something wrong, and it can become very difficult to persuade them all is normal. I have seen this many times. They convince each other the pilots 'have done something' to the pressurisation, and they can hardly breath. Just a few weeks ago, I was faced with a delegation that came to the flight deck and said they had been talking in the rear galley 'and they were all suffering the same symptoms- they had all never been on a flight where they were so seriously passing wind as they were today, and what was wrong?'. It was hard to keep a serious, straight face. One thought 'well maybe it would be better not to have the curry crew meal!', but this was one of those times not to be flippant or tell a joke. The pressurisation was absolutely normal with both packs delivering full volume air. But women talk, and they become convinced, and they are all quite certain 'there was something wrong that day'.
I think maybe your wife had a bad day (women do.....frequently). They get far more headaches than us men. Maybe the noise was unpleasant and gave her one. We had a faulty door seal on a positioning flight. The level of noise is intense and startling. I would say there really was nothing wrong.....but you can't convince them of that.
The cabin crew can become convinced there is something wrong, and it can become very difficult to persuade them all is normal. I have seen this many times. They convince each other the pilots 'have done something' to the pressurisation, and they can hardly breath. Just a few weeks ago, I was faced with a delegation that came to the flight deck and said they had been talking in the rear galley 'and they were all suffering the same symptoms- they had all never been on a flight where they were so seriously passing wind as they were today, and what was wrong?'. It was hard to keep a serious, straight face. One thought 'well maybe it would be better not to have the curry crew meal!', but this was one of those times not to be flippant or tell a joke. The pressurisation was absolutely normal with both packs delivering full volume air. But women talk, and they become convinced, and they are all quite certain 'there was something wrong that day'.
I think maybe your wife had a bad day (women do.....frequently). They get far more headaches than us men. Maybe the noise was unpleasant and gave her one. We had a faulty door seal on a positioning flight. The level of noise is intense and startling. I would say there really was nothing wrong.....but you can't convince them of that.
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UAL747DEN,
Appropriate comment from the other posters, to add to them....
There are many symptoms of hypoxia, feeling sick, or extremely sick, as you put it, is not one of them. Headache? Maybe, during the hypoxic state, but severe, and after the possibly hypoxic condition, very unlikely.
If her symptoms continue, my suggestion is for her to seek medical advice, it appears to me that the circumstances of the flight were not the cause of her problems.
I hope that she recovers quickly.
Regards,
Old Smokey
Appropriate comment from the other posters, to add to them....
There are many symptoms of hypoxia, feeling sick, or extremely sick, as you put it, is not one of them. Headache? Maybe, during the hypoxic state, but severe, and after the possibly hypoxic condition, very unlikely.
If her symptoms continue, my suggestion is for her to seek medical advice, it appears to me that the circumstances of the flight were not the cause of her problems.
I hope that she recovers quickly.
Regards,
Old Smokey
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She did not feel that the flight was unsafe in any way. She just wondered if maybe something was wrong after having that happen than being very sick the rest of the day. She did mention that the sound was extremely loud so that could be what started this all. It could also be that she was at a tiny airport in the middle of nowhere and the passengers were all rednecks! I don't know what happened but I hope that she is ready to fly home today!
I will let her know about the paper towel!
I will let her know about the paper towel!
I used to fly a very large eccentric freight aircraft called the Short Belfast. The seals around the ramp (especially) were notorious for leaking. The loadmaster used to set off on a route march around the various orifices after take-off with a tray full of wet paper towels.
This piece of aviation folklore seems to have been lost in the sands of modern time. I can remember showing a 727 crew how to get rid of this awful noise not so many years ago.
Tell your wife that she cannot get harmed by this piece of first aid. The soggy paper towel gets sucked into the leaking seal area and not her! On arrival at destination, the (now dry) paper towel will simply fall on to the ramp!
There is absolutely no way that your wife can be harmed by a leaking door seal (apart from her hearing). Compared to the tiny pin-hole leak on a seal the discharge valves on the airframe are absolutely enormous.
Pressurisation of an aircraft is actually controlled by the outflow of air from the aircraft (via the discharge valves) and not by the inflow of air from the engines. If you ask your wife to ask the captain on her next flight to show her the size of the discharge valves then she will never be worried again about a leaking door seal.
Knowledge is a wonderful thing.
Personally, I hope it doesn't put her off flying and I hope that she really gets into aviation and everything that makes it work.
This piece of aviation folklore seems to have been lost in the sands of modern time. I can remember showing a 727 crew how to get rid of this awful noise not so many years ago.
Tell your wife that she cannot get harmed by this piece of first aid. The soggy paper towel gets sucked into the leaking seal area and not her! On arrival at destination, the (now dry) paper towel will simply fall on to the ramp!
There is absolutely no way that your wife can be harmed by a leaking door seal (apart from her hearing). Compared to the tiny pin-hole leak on a seal the discharge valves on the airframe are absolutely enormous.
Pressurisation of an aircraft is actually controlled by the outflow of air from the aircraft (via the discharge valves) and not by the inflow of air from the engines. If you ask your wife to ask the captain on her next flight to show her the size of the discharge valves then she will never be worried again about a leaking door seal.
Knowledge is a wonderful thing.
Personally, I hope it doesn't put her off flying and I hope that she really gets into aviation and everything that makes it work.
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The old wet paper towel trick works well but can cause more damage. Beware of the freeze thaw action.
I concur with the above that the pressurisation did not cause the sympoms described.
I concur with the above that the pressurisation did not cause the sympoms described.
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"also, it is unlikely your wife would be the only one suffering, if hypoxia was the cause."
I'm no medical expert, but surely an attendant is more at risk of hypoxia if she is running around the cabin looking after passengers.
I seriously hope she contacted both a company doctor and her local doctor. Slurring of words is certainly something you should not ignore irrespective of the cause.
Rgds.
NSEU
(Edit) From Wikipedia... "In the case of altitude sickness, where hypoxia develops gradually, the symptoms include headaches, fatigue, shortness of breath, and nausea."
I'm no medical expert, but surely an attendant is more at risk of hypoxia if she is running around the cabin looking after passengers.
I seriously hope she contacted both a company doctor and her local doctor. Slurring of words is certainly something you should not ignore irrespective of the cause.
Rgds.
NSEU
(Edit) From Wikipedia... "In the case of altitude sickness, where hypoxia develops gradually, the symptoms include headaches, fatigue, shortness of breath, and nausea."
Last edited by NSEU; 28th Jun 2007 at 03:16.
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Agree with the above. Your wife's symptoms do not sound like hypoxia or pressure induced.
Loss of concentration, feeling of giddiness, nausea, persistent headache... wasn't a BAe146-100 by any chance?
Loss of concentration, feeling of giddiness, nausea, persistent headache... wasn't a BAe146-100 by any chance?
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Perrin
Trust me if its a loud sharp whistle then its a small leak, if its any whistle at all there is nothing to worry about, the wet paper works. The noise the rear right hand door of the good old ATP used to play ,some very nice tunes I can tell you.
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"a gradual decompression or inability to maintain cabin pressure to below 10000' would definately bring warnings on in the cockpit, and given any airline's SOP,"
Of course, airplane warning/indication systems never break down
"if anything, cabin staff should be a little more immune to the effects of altitude, being subjected to climbs to cabin alt of 6-10000' regularly. certainly i would expect during their training to have undergone training to recognise the onset of a rising cabin altitude."
I think it's time we transferred this message thread to the medical forum... There seems to be a lot of speculation here. From the numerous reports I've read on hypoxia, I get the impression that it is something which creeps up on you.. .and by the time you should respond to it, your brain isn't functioning the way it should. There have been numerous threads on pilots not recognising the various warnings generated by their aircraft (including decompression). Re training on the effects of hypoxia..... I've come across cabin crew who don't even know how to close their own airplane doors
Crews subjected to cabin altitudes up to 10,000'??? What sort of aircraft are we talking about here?... On the 747-400, your first indication that something is amiss is at 8,500' (the cabin altitude indications turn to amber). At 10,000', you get aural warnings and red indications).
As I said before.. I'm no expert on hypoxia... I'm only relating what I've read in reports/safety journals.
Rgds.
NSEU
Of course, airplane warning/indication systems never break down
"if anything, cabin staff should be a little more immune to the effects of altitude, being subjected to climbs to cabin alt of 6-10000' regularly. certainly i would expect during their training to have undergone training to recognise the onset of a rising cabin altitude."
I think it's time we transferred this message thread to the medical forum... There seems to be a lot of speculation here. From the numerous reports I've read on hypoxia, I get the impression that it is something which creeps up on you.. .and by the time you should respond to it, your brain isn't functioning the way it should. There have been numerous threads on pilots not recognising the various warnings generated by their aircraft (including decompression). Re training on the effects of hypoxia..... I've come across cabin crew who don't even know how to close their own airplane doors
Crews subjected to cabin altitudes up to 10,000'??? What sort of aircraft are we talking about here?... On the 747-400, your first indication that something is amiss is at 8,500' (the cabin altitude indications turn to amber). At 10,000', you get aural warnings and red indications).
As I said before.. I'm no expert on hypoxia... I'm only relating what I've read in reports/safety journals.
Rgds.
NSEU
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"Trust me if its a loud sharp whistle then its a small leak, if its any whistle at all there is nothing to worry about, the wet paper works. The noise the rear right hand door of the good old ATP used to play ,some very nice tunes I can tell you."
Not necessarily - EMB135/145 front door whistles are mostly aerodynamic whistles caused by the position of the external handle.
If the handle is underflush, or proud, by more than 1mm it whistles like you wouldn't believe.
"Not necessarily - EMB135/145 front door whistles are mostly aerodynamic whistles caused by the position of the external handle.
If the handle is underflush, or proud, by more than 1mm it whistles like you wouldn't believe.
