Dispatching with destination bellow minima
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Valid point in rspect to CAVOK and alternate fuel, however with some requirements JAR allows planning without destination alternate under certain circumstances.
I think you are well, and I mean well in terms of miles, cautious. We will never be able to cover all possibilities in our live and this applies to flzing as well.
I see your point that you try to cover all posibilities. But, can we cover all of these? I think we can't. The rules and requirements in JAR are based on a resonable assumption that things may happen. Even with sfety a top priority the rueles have to be reasonable and practicable not only operational and safety wise but also economicaly.
I think you are well, and I mean well in terms of miles, cautious. We will never be able to cover all possibilities in our live and this applies to flzing as well.
I see your point that you try to cover all posibilities. But, can we cover all of these? I think we can't. The rules and requirements in JAR are based on a resonable assumption that things may happen. Even with sfety a top priority the rueles have to be reasonable and practicable not only operational and safety wise but also economicaly.
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Beakor
having fuel for dest (closed) + two alternates means you have trip fuel to destination and fuel to reach further of two alternates after G/A at dest. So if dest doesn't open you divert to altn early and have more than final reserve fuel at landing but you can not reach the other altn if the first one get closed for non-wx reason.
alatnariver
I'm NOT trying to cover all posibilities. I'm not asking what if suprasingly destination gets blocked and than alternate gets blocked too. This would be 2 or more eventualities and we would start an neverending story
Jar allows for no alternates but only in good wx if there are 2 runways at destination because one can get blocked
having fuel for dest (closed) + two alternates means you have trip fuel to destination and fuel to reach further of two alternates after G/A at dest. So if dest doesn't open you divert to altn early and have more than final reserve fuel at landing but you can not reach the other altn if the first one get closed for non-wx reason.
alatnariver
I'm NOT trying to cover all posibilities. I'm not asking what if suprasingly destination gets blocked and than alternate gets blocked too. This would be 2 or more eventualities and we would start an neverending story
Jar allows for no alternates but only in good wx if there are 2 runways at destination because one can get blocked
737 Incog,
True, you could engineer that situation if your alternates are further than your destination and alt 1 and alt 2 are distant from each other. Or if you choose alternates carefully then if the destination doesn't open you could make an approach to Alt 1, divert to Alt 2 and arrive with more fuel than if you'd made an approach at the destination and then diverted to Alt 2.
To write a rule to cover all eventualities would be very cumbersome and the final say on choice of alternates and fuel to carry is down to you as the captain.
If you really want to be covered, produce 2 plogs. 1 to dest with 2 alternates and using fuel for the farthest. The second to Alt 1 using Alt 2 as the alternate. Then use the higher of the 2 fuel loads.
Beakor
True, you could engineer that situation if your alternates are further than your destination and alt 1 and alt 2 are distant from each other. Or if you choose alternates carefully then if the destination doesn't open you could make an approach to Alt 1, divert to Alt 2 and arrive with more fuel than if you'd made an approach at the destination and then diverted to Alt 2.
To write a rule to cover all eventualities would be very cumbersome and the final say on choice of alternates and fuel to carry is down to you as the captain.
If you really want to be covered, produce 2 plogs. 1 to dest with 2 alternates and using fuel for the farthest. The second to Alt 1 using Alt 2 as the alternate. Then use the higher of the 2 fuel loads.
Beakor
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Beakor
What you say about two flight plans is how I feel the flight should be dispatched.
However when we discussed exatcly this on company's meeting with dispatchers few problems were recognised like what to put in ICAO Flight Plan, permits required as some alternates are in different countries etc and since country/company is new to Jar-Ops I was hoping I would get some know-how info from wise elders.
I was suprised to learn there are some contradictions in Jar-Ops itself.
Anyway I'm very gratefull for all the opinions here
What you say about two flight plans is how I feel the flight should be dispatched.
However when we discussed exatcly this on company's meeting with dispatchers few problems were recognised like what to put in ICAO Flight Plan, permits required as some alternates are in different countries etc and since country/company is new to Jar-Ops I was hoping I would get some know-how info from wise elders.
I was suprised to learn there are some contradictions in Jar-Ops itself.
Anyway I'm very gratefull for all the opinions here
