Severe turbulence/mountain wave 10th March 2007
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 275
Likes: 7
From: gamma quadrant
Similiar experience a few years ago. unfortunately, it was an inaugural flight and the plane was full of VIP's, press and the airlines MD....14 injured, not an experience you ever want to repeat..
Safe Flying.
Safe Flying.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 294
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From: Dark side of the force
That wind over the Pirineos is called "Tramontana", it´s local wind in all the region, it get´s really bumpy.
You also can get this type of heavy turbulence in the Approach at Malaga airport on Rwy13, it´s called "terral" and mainly on the summer, that has been my worst experience on winds.
You also can get this type of heavy turbulence in the Approach at Malaga airport on Rwy13, it´s called "terral" and mainly on the summer, that has been my worst experience on winds.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,432
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From: Dre's mum's house
Last night it was at all levels from FL290; we had to squeal for an immediate descent from FL370 north of MLA. Speed all over the place and bouncing around like a kid on a trampoline. One easyJet crew asked for descent and were told to "Standby". Great reply from the crew "I don't want to standby I want to descend because of turbulence" Maybe the ATC guy in his warm stationary room won't ask a crew to "Standby" again!! North bound it wasnt too bad over Bilboa, got lumpier near Nantes. Have the joys of the same route tonite
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 127
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From: this side of the hill
One easyJet crew asked for descent and were told to "Standby". Great reply from the crew "I don't want to standby I want to descend because of turbulence" Maybe the ATC guy in his warm stationary room won't ask a crew to "Standby" again!!
Would you prefer ATC to descend you into another plane? I will tell pilots to standby when needed, different pilots have different degrees of turbulence tolerance and I will certainly not loose separation because of a pilot feeling a bit uncomfortable. Whenever possible he will get descend, if he has to wait and cannot he should declare that he's unable to maintain level and emergency separation can be applied. This happened once to me during the past 20 years in probably the busiest airspace over Europe. The idea that you even think ATC would not give descend because they don't feel like it is revolting and shows very little appreciation of our jobs. Have a great Sunday.
Would you prefer ATC to descend you into another plane? I will tell pilots to standby when needed, different pilots have different degrees of turbulence tolerance and I will certainly not loose separation because of a pilot feeling a bit uncomfortable. Whenever possible he will get descend, if he has to wait and cannot he should declare that he's unable to maintain level and emergency separation can be applied. This happened once to me during the past 20 years in probably the busiest airspace over Europe. The idea that you even think ATC would not give descend because they don't feel like it is revolting and shows very little appreciation of our jobs. Have a great Sunday.
Last edited by garp; 12th March 2007 at 06:57. Reason: Inappropriate language
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,052
Likes: 8
From: Put out to graze
Agress with GARP. However, some Eurpoean ATC is most definatley not in the same class as the likes of UK and doesnt instill the confidence that we would prefer!
I have only ever ONCE experienced what I would class as severe turbulence - we couldn't read any instruments, took a few goes at getting hold of the ALT selector and cockpit was full of charts, meal packs, papers etc etc!
This was south of alps over Italy and ATC did same, responed to our request for descent with 'standby'. However our reply was 'Mayday, we are descending to FL200' and down we went. That cut through the red tape!
I have only ever ONCE experienced what I would class as severe turbulence - we couldn't read any instruments, took a few goes at getting hold of the ALT selector and cockpit was full of charts, meal packs, papers etc etc!
This was south of alps over Italy and ATC did same, responed to our request for descent with 'standby'. However our reply was 'Mayday, we are descending to FL200' and down we went. That cut through the red tape!
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 2,222
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From: Anderlecht
The Real Slim Shady, you show an incredible lack of knowledge and maturity. Wonder what you would have posted if the controller had given immediate descent slap bang into some other traffic. Rest assured my friend that no controller will deliberately make you ride heavy turbulence just for the fun of it. Try and understand that if an aircraft in the cruise unexpectantly requests descent the controller may well first have to initiate co-ordination with an adjacent sector or unit. Spend a day in an en-route ATC centre before you mouth off so stupidly.
Kick the tires, by all means call "Mayday - am descending to FL200". Then it's your responsibility. But if you "request" descent the controller will not move you until he/she is satisfied that it is safe to do so and all necessary co-ordination has been effected - because it's his/her responsibility.
Kick the tires, by all means call "Mayday - am descending to FL200". Then it's your responsibility. But if you "request" descent the controller will not move you until he/she is satisfied that it is safe to do so and all necessary co-ordination has been effected - because it's his/her responsibility.
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,513
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From: England
All fair comment. I suspect that very very few cockpit crew are ever trained in emergency descent due to turbulence. Decompression - all the time.
The latter is black and white. The former grey and grey.
Its a topic that Air traffic control Officers and Pilots should perhaps discuss in more detail for mutual benefit.
Cheers
WWW
The latter is black and white. The former grey and grey.
Its a topic that Air traffic control Officers and Pilots should perhaps discuss in more detail for mutual benefit.
Cheers
WWW
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 930
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
Mmm!
Severe turbulance means the A/C is temporalily out of control.
Standby well yes, will be followed very shortly by a jet upset.
That means mayday if you can get the words out with a mouth full of cockpit clutter.
ATC if an a/c is screaming for descent due severe turbulance he/she means it, it is just a matter of timing before the mayday. Severe turbulance can be the most frightning thing a pilot experiences in his/her career, he/she is NOT a wimp. Those who think he/she is, have never been in severe turbulance.
Mother nature is bigger stronger than any human built machine or person, luckily it does not happen that often.
Severe turbulance means the A/C is temporalily out of control.
Standby well yes, will be followed very shortly by a jet upset.
That means mayday if you can get the words out with a mouth full of cockpit clutter.
ATC if an a/c is screaming for descent due severe turbulance he/she means it, it is just a matter of timing before the mayday. Severe turbulance can be the most frightning thing a pilot experiences in his/her career, he/she is NOT a wimp. Those who think he/she is, have never been in severe turbulance.
Mother nature is bigger stronger than any human built machine or person, luckily it does not happen that often.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Limbo
Training
WWW - re you comment on training. A very good point.
After some thousands of hours, quite a few global, I've never experienced it nor heard it mentioned by trainers apart from a video on Jet Upset on one type rating course.
Certainly never seen it in the sim.
Well worth inclusion.
SS
After some thousands of hours, quite a few global, I've never experienced it nor heard it mentioned by trainers apart from a video on Jet Upset on one type rating course.
Certainly never seen it in the sim.
Well worth inclusion.
SS