engine out acceleration vs recall items B737 CL
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Sidstar, in essence I think we are saying the same thing and that is that rushing is the precursor to a lot of potential error and with jet engines there is NO need to rush. What is the actual incidence of fire on the CFM-56. A few years ago there were none if I remember correctly. NONE.
And on takeoff with an average rate of climb of 2000ft, what is the difference between 400ft and 1000ft? Practically zilch. I have no problem with 400ft or 1000ft but the point being to make sure that the crew does not RUSH into solving a problem and compound it. And even the best of crews can be prone to making errors when RUSHED.
The second thing is the rush to get the airplane back on the ground. An airplane takes off with 4-5 hrs of fuel on board and the crew rushes through the procedures. Why? Is there some secret knowledge that engines share so number 2 'knows' number 1 quit and it is angry about being left alone? And it decides also to quit? Obviously one does not want to dally but one also does not have to rush.
For that reason, having the Capt do the checklist, the F/O monitor/program the autoflight and having the autoflight fly the airplane reduces everyone's workload. Of course, this flies in the face of what we have done for years and that is the CAPT flies during an emergency. Well, if the F/O can't keep the blue side up with an engine out, fire everyone in the training department and in personnel or ops who hired these guys/gals.
An interesting study came out a few years ago which showed that the F/As, F/Os and Capt all looked at the event differently. The Capt was looking at how long before getting the airplane on the ground, the F/O at the obviously high workload of doing all the checklists and the F/As were looking at how to prep the cabin in time... so different perspectives. But with 4hrs of fuel, everyone can do what they need to do and then make an approach.
Of course, we are talking *engine* fire and not smoke and fire in the cabin/cockpt/cargo hold. With a fire in the cabin/cockpit/cargo hold, all bets are off... you may have as long as :x0 minutes or as few as 2-3 minutes before it gets real ugly.
And on takeoff with an average rate of climb of 2000ft, what is the difference between 400ft and 1000ft? Practically zilch. I have no problem with 400ft or 1000ft but the point being to make sure that the crew does not RUSH into solving a problem and compound it. And even the best of crews can be prone to making errors when RUSHED.
The second thing is the rush to get the airplane back on the ground. An airplane takes off with 4-5 hrs of fuel on board and the crew rushes through the procedures. Why? Is there some secret knowledge that engines share so number 2 'knows' number 1 quit and it is angry about being left alone? And it decides also to quit? Obviously one does not want to dally but one also does not have to rush.
For that reason, having the Capt do the checklist, the F/O monitor/program the autoflight and having the autoflight fly the airplane reduces everyone's workload. Of course, this flies in the face of what we have done for years and that is the CAPT flies during an emergency. Well, if the F/O can't keep the blue side up with an engine out, fire everyone in the training department and in personnel or ops who hired these guys/gals.
An interesting study came out a few years ago which showed that the F/As, F/Os and Capt all looked at the event differently. The Capt was looking at how long before getting the airplane on the ground, the F/O at the obviously high workload of doing all the checklists and the F/As were looking at how to prep the cabin in time... so different perspectives. But with 4hrs of fuel, everyone can do what they need to do and then make an approach.
Of course, we are talking *engine* fire and not smoke and fire in the cabin/cockpt/cargo hold. With a fire in the cabin/cockpit/cargo hold, all bets are off... you may have as long as :x0 minutes or as few as 2-3 minutes before it gets real ugly.
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Of course, we are talking *engine* fire and not smoke and fire in the cabin/cockpt/cargo hold. With a fire in the cabin/cockpit/cargo hold, all bets are off... you may have as long as :x0 minutes or as few as 2-3 minutes before it gets real ugly
That said, I know for a fact that El Al the Israeli airline about six years ago specifically used to train for this eventuality in the simulator during command training. I was personally involved in this training. The fire in the cabin was simulated at lift off and the object of the training was to land the aircraft safely within the shortest time. With practice, times of slightly less than two minutes were obtained in the 737NG. It helped that the Israeli crews were often former or current fighter pilots, of course.
