low visibility operations
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10
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From: Italy
low visibility operations
good evening,
I've got a question about LVP,
when an airport is operation in CAT 2 it is possible to land using CAT 3 minima?!
where I can find any regulation material on this matter.
Thanks
I've got a question about LVP,
when an airport is operation in CAT 2 it is possible to land using CAT 3 minima?!
where I can find any regulation material on this matter.
Thanks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 980
Likes: 11
From: On the dark side of the moon
That is sort of like asking, "If the weather is reported to be below my approach ban limits prior to passing my approach ban decision point, can I land?"
CAT 3 is not just about your qualifications and the capabilities of your aircraft. It is also predicated on airport equipment capabilities, such as lighting, ILS signal integrity, ground movement restrictions etc. Many runways / airports are certified for CAT 2, but not for CAT 3. So, unless you confirm that CAT 3 is approved and that the airport is operating to CAT 3 specifications, you cannot land in CAT 2 operations using CAT 3 minima. I do not have access to your local regulations so I cannot provide a reference. I recommend that you ask your Civil Aviation Authority for that information.
CAT 3 is not just about your qualifications and the capabilities of your aircraft. It is also predicated on airport equipment capabilities, such as lighting, ILS signal integrity, ground movement restrictions etc. Many runways / airports are certified for CAT 2, but not for CAT 3. So, unless you confirm that CAT 3 is approved and that the airport is operating to CAT 3 specifications, you cannot land in CAT 2 operations using CAT 3 minima. I do not have access to your local regulations so I cannot provide a reference. I recommend that you ask your Civil Aviation Authority for that information.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
Likes: 4
From: UK
micheloni - I do not think I understand your question.
The airport will operate to 'LVP's when the weather is below certain limits. It will not 'operate' to CatII or CatIII or anything. It will have an ILS which has been 'categorised' as either CatII or CatIII depending on many things. This category will be published.
If the ILS is CatII then it is not permitted to operate to limits below those for your airline's CatII approach minima, so if the ILS is notified as CatII then you should not operate to CatIII limits, but you could possibly carry out an autoland from the CatII appproach.
If these answers do not answer your question, can you try again?
The airport will operate to 'LVP's when the weather is below certain limits. It will not 'operate' to CatII or CatIII or anything. It will have an ILS which has been 'categorised' as either CatII or CatIII depending on many things. This category will be published.
If the ILS is CatII then it is not permitted to operate to limits below those for your airline's CatII approach minima, so if the ILS is notified as CatII then you should not operate to CatIII limits, but you could possibly carry out an autoland from the CatII appproach.
If these answers do not answer your question, can you try again?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Italy
thanks I-FORD
thanks to everybody
I'll try to setup a scenario to explain my question:
I'm planning to land on a fully equipped airport for a CAT 3 with a current wx of 350 mt RVR and a low Ceiling the ATC to permit the operation of acft equipped with CAT 2 only is broadcasting on ATis CAT 2 operations in progress.
In the notams no degradations of CAT 3 capability of the afld.
To avoid the possibility of encounter a cloud just at DH are you allowed to lower you DH to 50 ft?
thanks to everybody
I'll try to setup a scenario to explain my question:
I'm planning to land on a fully equipped airport for a CAT 3 with a current wx of 350 mt RVR and a low Ceiling the ATC to permit the operation of acft equipped with CAT 2 only is broadcasting on ATis CAT 2 operations in progress.
In the notams no degradations of CAT 3 capability of the afld.
To avoid the possibility of encounter a cloud just at DH are you allowed to lower you DH to 50 ft?
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
From: land of the long BLUE cloud
no notam?
Micheloni,
You say ther are no notams advising of downgraded equipment, but if a cat III airport is only allowing cat II approaches, surely that would be published in a Notam.... They might not specify why the downgrade is in place. But you will find that one piece of equipment/lighting is not at the required standard for cat III ops. They wont restict operations just to be difficult!
If you land below cat II minima, you will be just as wrong as doing as if it is a cat I airport. For Cat III ops, you, the aircraft, and the airport must comply with cat III qualifications.
You say ther are no notams advising of downgraded equipment, but if a cat III airport is only allowing cat II approaches, surely that would be published in a Notam.... They might not specify why the downgrade is in place. But you will find that one piece of equipment/lighting is not at the required standard for cat III ops. They wont restict operations just to be difficult!
If you land below cat II minima, you will be just as wrong as doing as if it is a cat I airport. For Cat III ops, you, the aircraft, and the airport must comply with cat III qualifications.
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,212
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From: Anywhere
Micheloni
Provided the airport is Cat III equipped then there is nothing to prevent you doing a Cat III approach provided you notify ATC first andprovided the ATIS broadcast is just referring to CAT II ops, NOT a system degradation down to Cat II. As far as the airport / ATC is concerned there is very little difference between Cat II / III operations as far as the runway environment is concerned. The main difference in the two is taxying procedures.
Provided the airport is Cat III equipped then there is nothing to prevent you doing a Cat III approach provided you notify ATC first andprovided the ATIS broadcast is just referring to CAT II ops, NOT a system degradation down to Cat II. As far as the airport / ATC is concerned there is very little difference between Cat II / III operations as far as the runway environment is concerned. The main difference in the two is taxying procedures.
Last edited by Chilli Monster; 20th February 2007 at 07:34.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,178
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From: UK
There may not be a NOTAM if the failure/downgrade only happened a sort while ago!
If the checks/test for the equipment on that day return a degraded state of operaion (system redundancy, lighting unserviceabilities etc) then the ATIS will have to broadcast the capabilities and limitations of the system.
Those limitations then become the absolute minima until the fault is cleared.
In short, if an airfield broadcsts for eg. ILS Cat 2 only - that (or your company approved cat 2 minimum) is your limit.
If the checks/test for the equipment on that day return a degraded state of operaion (system redundancy, lighting unserviceabilities etc) then the ATIS will have to broadcast the capabilities and limitations of the system.
Those limitations then become the absolute minima until the fault is cleared.
In short, if an airfield broadcsts for eg. ILS Cat 2 only - that (or your company approved cat 2 minimum) is your limit.
