US rules about after landing taxing in undeclared hijacking conditions
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: ? ? ?
Posts: 2,281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
US rules about after landing taxing in undeclared hijacking conditions
Hi all,
read somewhere in unofficial docs that taxing to the gate after landing in US airport with slats/flaps extended is codified as a request to police action following hijacking.
I searched the FAA website with no result.
Can anybody clarify me if it is true or not and, if yes, show reference to official docs/website ?
Tks in advance
HVIII
read somewhere in unofficial docs that taxing to the gate after landing in US airport with slats/flaps extended is codified as a request to police action following hijacking.
I searched the FAA website with no result.
Can anybody clarify me if it is true or not and, if yes, show reference to official docs/website ?
Tks in advance
HVIII
Join Date: May 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have never heard that before, but doesn't really make sense. It wouldn't be useful at night or in poor visibility conditions. And in general, hijacked planes do not land and attempt to taxi to the gate like nothing has happened. How would that be useful to the perps?
O great....
In my airline it is good practice to leave the flaps/slats extended after landing in snow or on a contaminated runway. Just in case ice has accumulated on and between the flap sections, which can cause damage when the flaps are retracted.
So next time whem we land in JFK and it is a winter wonderland, We have to make a choice:
1. possibly cause damage to the flaps by retracting them in snow
2. expect a welcome-party at the gate.
In my airline it is good practice to leave the flaps/slats extended after landing in snow or on a contaminated runway. Just in case ice has accumulated on and between the flap sections, which can cause damage when the flaps are retracted.
So next time whem we land in JFK and it is a winter wonderland, We have to make a choice:
1. possibly cause damage to the flaps by retracting them in snow
2. expect a welcome-party at the gate.
counter-measures
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Over Graz
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: washington,dc
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dear international pilots
as I don't know how to fly around jolly olde or any of the other nations across the pond may I say this:
go out and buy a copy of the US AIM (aeronautical information manual)...open up to security and you will learn all sorts of nice things.
as the AIM is also available online, look up on google if you like.
we don't mind talking about it as it is free and open information . you can buy a copy of the AIM anywhere and I am sure the bad guys already have a copy!
flaps down after landing can, and I repeat CAN , mean: we are desperate and want armed intervention no matter what.
it can mean you should politely say to tower, our company requires us to taxi in with flaps down, don't think anything is wrong.
on the dc9, flaps 15 to the gate was normal, but flaps 40 would get the attention of a sharp eyed controller...not too many of those around anymore.
as I don't know how to fly around jolly olde or any of the other nations across the pond may I say this:
go out and buy a copy of the US AIM (aeronautical information manual)...open up to security and you will learn all sorts of nice things.
as the AIM is also available online, look up on google if you like.
we don't mind talking about it as it is free and open information . you can buy a copy of the AIM anywhere and I am sure the bad guys already have a copy!
flaps down after landing can, and I repeat CAN , mean: we are desperate and want armed intervention no matter what.
it can mean you should politely say to tower, our company requires us to taxi in with flaps down, don't think anything is wrong.
on the dc9, flaps 15 to the gate was normal, but flaps 40 would get the attention of a sharp eyed controller...not too many of those around anymore.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: London
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"on the dc9, flaps 15 to the gate was normal, but flaps 40 would get the attention of a sharp eyed controller...not too many of those around anymore."
What isn't the dc-9 or the sharp eyed controller?????
What isn't the dc-9 or the sharp eyed controller?????
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the experts themselves, the Boeing Flight Crew Training Manuals, no less:"To reduce the possibility of flap damage following an approach in icing conditions or landing on a runway covered with snow or slush, do not retract the flaps until the flap area has been checked free of ice debris by maintenance."
So it's a normal practice all right - for icing contamination , not hijacking! I really don't know where the latter idea came from - military? Certainly not written in my books.
Do you really think the tower/ground would even notice and potentially call the Swat team? I really don't think so....
Oh, and notice it is not just when you land on contaminated runways, but also when you conducted an approach in icing conditions - something we tend to overlook, I suspect.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: washington,dc
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
irjt24
good one! more dc9's than sharp eyed controllers.
and to those who don't think the cops would be called...they have been...so you all be careful.
and if you are leaving your flaps down while taxiing in America, just casually mention...our flaps are down to inspect for icing or something else equally reassuring. and remember, that's for FULL flaps not just partial flaps.
good one! more dc9's than sharp eyed controllers.
and to those who don't think the cops would be called...they have been...so you all be careful.
and if you are leaving your flaps down while taxiing in America, just casually mention...our flaps are down to inspect for icing or something else equally reassuring. and remember, that's for FULL flaps not just partial flaps.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bucks
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
irjt24
good one! more dc9's than sharp eyed controllers.
and to those who don't think the cops would be called...they have been...so you all be careful.
and if you are leaving your flaps down while taxiing in America, just casually mention...our flaps are down to inspect for icing or something else equally reassuring. and remember, that's for FULL flaps not just partial flaps.
good one! more dc9's than sharp eyed controllers.
and to those who don't think the cops would be called...they have been...so you all be careful.
and if you are leaving your flaps down while taxiing in America, just casually mention...our flaps are down to inspect for icing or something else equally reassuring. and remember, that's for FULL flaps not just partial flaps.
I'm not saying that using flaps to signal a security sitation is bad practice, I'm simply stating that if such a practice is in operation, all pilots should be made aware of this fact, and their respective airlines should be given the choice to be put on a list of those opting out, at their own discretion and risk. I've lost count of the amount of times I've taxied to the gate, and looked out of the window to see the flaps still extended, and not a single terrorist in sight.
Edited to add: let's not pretend that most 'secret signals' aren't well known on a public level, let alone amongst those who have the resources to bring an aircraft down in the first place, especially considering such an obvious procedure, its like hiding the bat signal
.
Last edited by AlexB; 7th Jan 2007 at 00:48.
double zero and V2 + a little:
I am just a lowly airline pilot, but I do dare to say this:
There is nothing about my job that is classified information whatsoever. Therefore I/we can discuss anything anytime on the net. That includes "secret" codes for unlawful intervention. Which turn out to be googled at will and are therefore not so secret.......
Such as squawk 7500, 7700 and flaps up/down or similar.
The bottom line is: The cockpit door stays closed. Even if they are killing off the cabin attendants one at a time in front of the camera, which I will have swithed off by then.
I am just a lowly airline pilot, but I do dare to say this:
There is nothing about my job that is classified information whatsoever. Therefore I/we can discuss anything anytime on the net. That includes "secret" codes for unlawful intervention. Which turn out to be googled at will and are therefore not so secret.......
Such as squawk 7500, 7700 and flaps up/down or similar.
The bottom line is: The cockpit door stays closed. Even if they are killing off the cabin attendants one at a time in front of the camera, which I will have swithed off by then.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: any given hotel
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know why eveyone's getting their knickers in a knot? I have been told that leaving flaps down can signify unlawful interference and have indeed heard controlers asking 'confirm ops normal' to guys a little slow on the after landings. Am not saying that it does signify just that it can. As to the guys saying that this topic is a security breach well hey, I'm afraid in this day and age of the internet this information is already out there. If you think that the bad guys don't have friends in the airline industry in what ever capacity and aren't feeding this and more information to them then you're living in a very sheltered environment.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: JNB
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fox niner, I agree there are no secret codes. The fact that leaving the flaps down was not know to anyone (and sounds like it is false) would imply a secret code. If it was it would be stupid to post it on here, thats all. 