New Boeing cockpit checklist policy and 737 Classics

[Centaurus]

The latest edition of the B737NG Vol 1 introduces a radical change to the previous Boeing checklist and area of responsibility on the flight deck. My understanding is that these revised procedures apply only to the NG series due to the commonality between the cockpit layout on the 777 and 747-400.

Can someone advise if the changes are also intended to apply to the 737-200 and 737 Classics? And how about the B717 and B747-2-300 series? Are they affected by the revised policy?

As neither the 737-200 nor the Classics are in production anymore, and therefore no more FCTM and Vol 1 amendments to procedures are to be expected (?), has anyone seen anything specific from Boeing to indicate that the new procedures are meant to apply to all 737 models?

[alexban]

As you said the new procedures are not only about the cockpit layout but mostly about new areas of responsability and procedures changed in accordance with those areas.
In this regard the 737 classic is the same as the NG.
Due to the fact that many 737 operators use a mixt fleet classic with NG ,it's very probable that the changes will affect also the classic.
Otherwise it would be difficult to operate on the same time a mixt fleet.On our company this is the case,and the new procedures won't be applied to the NG operations untill the changes will be also done in the classic FCOM's.
It would be very confusing to fly a classic today,by the old procedures,then a NG tomorrow following the new ones.
Brgds....
Alex

[Centaurus]

Thanks Alexban. I have not yet seen an authoritive statement from Boeing that the revised procedures also apply to 737 Classics. While it may be logical in mixed fleets, I am not sure about the veracity of these procedures on fleets with only Classics.

There would seem little reason to change the procedures here just for the sake of change, from procedures that have stood the test of time since the early Seventies. If there was a pressing flight safety reason to change the Classics due perhaps from lessons learned from recent accidents, I could understand it. But not just because Airbus has an advantage on cross-cockpit qualification.

[Henry Winkler]

My company operates both 737-800's and 737 classics (300 and 400). We are using the new boeing procedures on both types. We are endorsed on both and can fly both in one tour of duty. The new procedures are much better than the old ones, with the transition taking less than a 3 day trip to get used to.

[N2334M]

New procedures, where to find them ?

Hi,

I will soon start a B737 classic type rating, and I am interested to know about these new procedures.

Do you know where can I find some more info regarding those on the internet ?

Thank you.

[alexban]

Henry ,how did you apply the new procedures to the classics if Boeing didn't yet change the manuals? Or they did?

[Henry Winkler]

alexban
Our Ops1 is only one book, for the whole 737 fleet. In other words, the procedures are the same for both. If they change one, they change the other. Only Ops2 (systems) and Perfomance Manuals are specific to classic and -800.

[dimoal]

Hello all!

The changes apply to 737-400 as well. In our company changes will take effect from September 1st. As far as I 've seen (I didnt't have the chance to study them yet allthough I allready have the new material) the changes are major. They include changes of the before start/before takeoff CL as well as some memo items CL no longer considered to be such (i.e. pax evacuation and aborted engine starts).

[Terraplaneblues]

There is a movie describing the changes and the reasons on myboeingfleet.com, unfortunately the file size is 176mb zipped. Flt ops management would do well to download and show all pilots what it is about. 737newnormalprocedures.zip is the file.

The changes cover all Seattle produced airplanes according to the movie and are included in the latest FCOM of both NG & Classic 737.

The main theme is safety, only item to check whilst taxying is the flaps and similar minimal checks for approach.
To reduce ground (runway incursion) and landing incidents by allowing more time to look outside It would seem.

Hope this helps

[FullWings]

I must be getting old if the 737-400 is being described as a "classic"! It was like going onto an Airbus after flying the -200.

[Henry Winkler]

A brief run down. The new NORMAL procedures are to align the aircraft as much as possible with the other Boeing glass aeroplanes. Our Company has more than just the 737, so the transition between aircraft types is easier and shorter (similar to Airbus, which saves $$$).
The checklists have changed massively. Instead of checking everything in a checklist, it's only the things that are required for safe flight. Everything else either doesn't matter, or will give you a warning when doing a recall. So the checklists are much shorter. "Before take-off" Checklist is now just "flaps". Also the checkilst names have changed. There is a "Pre-Flight" Checklist and NO "After Start Checklist", just a "Before taxi" Cheklist. The "Descent Approach" Checklist is now split and we have a "Descent" Checklist and an "Approach" Checklist. Also interesting to note that the responses to the checklists are form the pilot whose area of reponsability it is, instead of the F/O(PNF) reads and the Capt (PNF) respond. The exception is the "After-Takoff" which the PNF does by themself.
As for flows, it works quite well. Almost everything in the F/D (pre-flight) is the F/O's. So while the Capt does the walk around, the F/O gets the flight deck ready. When the Capt gets back, everything is done. Makes the preflight pretty tidy.
Also, only the Normal procedures have changed thus far. The NON-Normals are still the old ones. However I believe this is changing to.
Cheers.

[Gufo]

I'm working for a Classic operator. Still no sign of change, either in the Normal or Non-normal procedures. But rumors are insistent, especially at the sim, when having contacts with "Boeing involved" guys, that Non-normal procs are going to change within the end of the year, as well.
And that is quite desirable; coming from Airbus, I do think 737's Non-normal checklists are horrible. Lots of confusion, cross reference btw checklists, bad graphic layout (indentation is far from being clear). Time for a change, IMHO

[SimWes]

Mach Trim Fail light

Could some one please clarify a point in regards to the pre flight checks on the 737NG. More specifically the Mach Trim Fail light

The Ops Manual (dated March 28th 2005 NP.21.11) states that the light should be extinguished whilst carrying out the pre flight checks (with no mention of the Electric Hydraulics Pumps)

Asking around, the thought is that the light will only be extinguished once the Electric Hydraulics Pumps have been switched on.

This would seems to be the case in previous Ops manuals where the pumps are switched on prior to the walk round.

Unfortunately I could not find the place where it specifies the pumps are to be switched on within the new procedures

Any thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[B737MRG]

Hi SimWes,

I don't find the Mach Trim Fail light illuminated during pre-flight (yesterday on classic, but guess same goes for NG).

Or did you mean the Speed Trim Fail light (which remains illuminated till the IRS are aligned)

Pat