IFR dept question
Guest
Posts: n/a
IFR dept question
Just wondering what you guys do when it comes to departing IFR from an airport with no published departure? Do you just go straight out to 1000 feet and turn as required or do you fly to your safe sector alt before proceeding on course?
cheers
cheers
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: australia
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My opinion is if you have got: A) NO SID from ATC or the Airport you operate out of has no specific SID, and say it is night and the weather isn't the prettiest in my opinion it would be prudent to fly your companys engine out escape route or the normal engine escape route for example this airport in Australia has no SID or STARS but the airline requires off Rwy 18 that the crews use the ALL ENGINES OPERATING procedures to depart the strip. It is like the saying if you have a GPS/GPWS and switch it off in the flightdeck, you are not using your resources at 100%
AIRPORT: MAROOCHYDORE
RUNWAY: 18
ENGINE FAILURE AT OR AFTER V1
1. Standard procedures following engine failure at or after V1.
2. Track 184°M.
3. At 2 DME turn LEFT track 090°M.
4. Acceleration altitude 800 ft QNH.
5. VMC Visual circuit and landing.
....IMC Continue climb and proceeds for an instrument approach.
...OR
...Continue climb in an appropriate holding pattern to lowest safe altitude for departure track.
ALL ENGINES OPERATING
1. After leaving 500 ft QNH proceed to intercept departure track.
AIRPORT: MAROOCHYDORE
RUNWAY: 18
ENGINE FAILURE AT OR AFTER V1
1. Standard procedures following engine failure at or after V1.
2. Track 184°M.
3. At 2 DME turn LEFT track 090°M.
4. Acceleration altitude 800 ft QNH.
5. VMC Visual circuit and landing.
....IMC Continue climb and proceeds for an instrument approach.
...OR
...Continue climb in an appropriate holding pattern to lowest safe altitude for departure track.
ALL ENGINES OPERATING
1. After leaving 500 ft QNH proceed to intercept departure track.
I have been doing my training for this and have come accross this a lot. The way i see it is takeoff climb to 500ft, turn to track overhead the aid and remaining in the circling area if in IMC and climb to LSALT before departing on track, if in vmc and visual with the ground, depart as normal and intercept track as normal.
When climbing overhead in IMC then climbing to your LSALT for your first sector is safe as you are remaining in the circling area and therefore are pretty much guaranteed to not hit something. As long as you reach LSALT before leaving the circling area you will be right.
When climbing overhead in IMC then climbing to your LSALT for your first sector is safe as you are remaining in the circling area and therefore are pretty much guaranteed to not hit something. As long as you reach LSALT before leaving the circling area you will be right.
PPRuNeaholic
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Cairns FNQ
Posts: 3,255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the absence of formal procedures or SOPs, I'd be wanting to take a good, long look at a decent topo chart before I even went anywhere near the aeroplane. That way I find out where all the obstacles are and, more importantly, where they aren't.
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: MIRSI hold - give or take...
Age: 52
Posts: 568
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OzExpat has a very good point (as usual 
)
In a perfect-according-to-ICAO-world, you should - provided the contry you operate in have no deviations from ICAO standard - without a published omnidirectional departure procedure or altitude:
- Be able to climb "straight" ahead (+/- 15 deg.) to 394 ft. above DER with 3,3%
- Then be allowed to turn in any direction, continuing to climb with no less than 3,3% until reaching the MSA, a holding fix & MHA for shuttling in the hold or a MOCA when joining an airway.
- If this cannot be provided, an omnidirectional departure procedure or an SID must be established
However, we do not live in such a perfect world...
So have some perf. engineers look at it - very closely - so you are able to reach both the OPS req. 1500 ft. AAL - but more importantly also enroute obstacle clearance of 1000 ft. (ok, 984 ft. for the purists
)
Brgds
Empty
)In a perfect-according-to-ICAO-world, you should - provided the contry you operate in have no deviations from ICAO standard - without a published omnidirectional departure procedure or altitude:
- Be able to climb "straight" ahead (+/- 15 deg.) to 394 ft. above DER with 3,3%
- Then be allowed to turn in any direction, continuing to climb with no less than 3,3% until reaching the MSA, a holding fix & MHA for shuttling in the hold or a MOCA when joining an airway.
- If this cannot be provided, an omnidirectional departure procedure or an SID must be established
However, we do not live in such a perfect world...
So have some perf. engineers look at it - very closely - so you are able to reach both the OPS req. 1500 ft. AAL - but more importantly also enroute obstacle clearance of 1000 ft. (ok, 984 ft. for the purists
)Brgds
Empty
If you're in Oz then something to consider if you're forced into the unfortunate situation of an engine failure below LSALT/MSA for an aerodrome are any DME Arrival steps & the relevant sector. It at least will give some indication of where there be dragons vs distance & arc.
Lacking that, I also consider the MDA per category for an aerodrome's circling approach. At least I can get some idea of terrain separation by staying within the circling area.
As Oz says: Always have a look at a topo chart...
Lacking that, I also consider the MDA per category for an aerodrome's circling approach. At least I can get some idea of terrain separation by staying within the circling area.
As Oz says: Always have a look at a topo chart...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: West
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://av-info.faa.gov/terps/IPH/CH%2002a.pdf
Perhaps information in Chapter Two (2-13/2-14) may be useful.
Perhaps information in Chapter Two (2-13/2-14) may be useful.
In a non perfect Canadian world if there is no published departure - fly the missed approach profile of the runway departing ( departing 09 fly the miss of the approach to 09 ) or fly the approach of the opposite runway backwards.
Departing 09 fly the approach to 27 backwards.
Climb at best angle / rate until you get to sector alt.
Crude but it works.
If a/c performance doesn't allow this and a vfr departure not possible it is time to stop and think about it.
Always carry the Topo charts for the operational area.
Look at them before departure.
Departing 09 fly the approach to 27 backwards.
Climb at best angle / rate until you get to sector alt.
Crude but it works.
If a/c performance doesn't allow this and a vfr departure not possible it is time to stop and think about it.
Always carry the Topo charts for the operational area.
Look at them before departure.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the UK from a commercial flying point of view, ATC will quite often give the instruction for initial departure i.e. "after passing 500ft when ready turn L/R to beacon/point"
If no instructions are given we simply fly runway heading until the company acceleration altitude and then turn toward our first waypoint. Obviously some airfields may have high terrain or obstacles preventing a direct turn in which case following the first part of the engine fail proc until above MSA or turning and passing through the overhead is normally used.
There is no hard and fast rule, all depends on the airport and local terrain. Some local knowledge helps no end, especially if IMC or night.
If no instructions are given we simply fly runway heading until the company acceleration altitude and then turn toward our first waypoint. Obviously some airfields may have high terrain or obstacles preventing a direct turn in which case following the first part of the engine fail proc until above MSA or turning and passing through the overhead is normally used.
There is no hard and fast rule, all depends on the airport and local terrain. Some local knowledge helps no end, especially if IMC or night.
