Crash due to coffee spill on instrument panels?
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Crash due to coffee spill on instrument panels?
Dear all,
Hope I'm posting on the right area
I remember hearing an accident long time ago, that an airplane (likely 737) crashed due to coffee spillage onto the center pedestal.
The story was coffee was spilled onto the center pedestal in the cockpit, and during flight, flight crew received their 1st engine fire warning, which was false.
The crew did what they need to do at that time, going through engine fire and all.
However latter on, the other engine also had a fire warning, thinking this must have been a false alarm (what are the odds of having both engine on fire for no appearant reason), the crew elected to keep the only ening running and divert to the nearest airport.
Unfortunately, the second engine fire was the real thing, and eventualy they crashed.
I'm not sure about the details, but I have this strong impression of similiar as stated above, and the key was, the false warning was CAUSED BY BEVERAGE SPILLS.
I've been doing a lot of search but can't find anything, does anyone has any ideas?
Any clue would be greatly appreciated, thank you in advanec
Tony Ko
Hope I'm posting on the right area
I remember hearing an accident long time ago, that an airplane (likely 737) crashed due to coffee spillage onto the center pedestal.
The story was coffee was spilled onto the center pedestal in the cockpit, and during flight, flight crew received their 1st engine fire warning, which was false.
The crew did what they need to do at that time, going through engine fire and all.
However latter on, the other engine also had a fire warning, thinking this must have been a false alarm (what are the odds of having both engine on fire for no appearant reason), the crew elected to keep the only ening running and divert to the nearest airport.
Unfortunately, the second engine fire was the real thing, and eventualy they crashed.
I'm not sure about the details, but I have this strong impression of similiar as stated above, and the key was, the false warning was CAUSED BY BEVERAGE SPILLS.
I've been doing a lot of search but can't find anything, does anyone has any ideas?
Any clue would be greatly appreciated, thank you in advanec
Tony Ko
G'day tonyko,
I am not familiar with an ACTUAL incident like this, others may be.
However, there was a movie produced quite some years ago, called 'Fate Is The Hunter'. It was supposedly based on Ernest Gann's famous book of the same name.
Alas, however, it was nothing like the book and a huge disappointment - to myself, anyway.
The 'plot' for the movie was a new experimental airliner which looked something like a DC6 - or something similar, with jet engines slung under the wings.
A cup of coffee placed on the centre console spilled and caused an engine fire warning, and the aeroplane was 'put down' on a beach at night - unfortunately there was a pier (wharf) in the way and it all ended 'sadly'.
I have heard some similar 'stories' since - but I really cannot say if they are true or not.
Cheers.
I am not familiar with an ACTUAL incident like this, others may be.
However, there was a movie produced quite some years ago, called 'Fate Is The Hunter'. It was supposedly based on Ernest Gann's famous book of the same name.
Alas, however, it was nothing like the book and a huge disappointment - to myself, anyway.
The 'plot' for the movie was a new experimental airliner which looked something like a DC6 - or something similar, with jet engines slung under the wings.
A cup of coffee placed on the centre console spilled and caused an engine fire warning, and the aeroplane was 'put down' on a beach at night - unfortunately there was a pier (wharf) in the way and it all ended 'sadly'.
I have heard some similar 'stories' since - but I really cannot say if they are true or not.
Cheers.
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Never heard of the event discribed above.
However last week CAL had a B738 suffer a Cargo Fire warning after Take Off. Procedures were completed and the acft returned to the nearest suitable airport.
In the wash up it was discovered to be a false alarm caused by a coffee spill on the Cargo Fire warning panel.
However last week CAL had a B738 suffer a Cargo Fire warning after Take Off. Procedures were completed and the acft returned to the nearest suitable airport.
In the wash up it was discovered to be a false alarm caused by a coffee spill on the Cargo Fire warning panel.
Last edited by IBTheseus; 30th Mar 2005 at 09:20.
Has also been implicated in at least one railway accident where long term beverage residue (principally sugar) has built up under the locomotive operating console and caused electrical short-circuits to safety equipment which was then secured out of service but (unwisely) inside the "MEL"; the accident occurred which could have been prevented had the safety equipment been serviceable.
Seems a problem wherever people work.
Seems a problem wherever people work.
Spilt Coffee
FSO GRIFFO,
You mentioned `Fate Is The Hunter` by Ernest Gann. I agree with you totally, the book was superb & should even to this day, be mandatory reading for all aspiring aviators, the film unfortunately did not come close to the book.
In particular, when it comes to CRM, Flight Deck & Crew Management etc, both `Fate Is The Hunter`(book) & Capt Al Haynes presentation re United 232 (Sioux City DC10) should be part of any course syllabus.
For me, many years ago when training on the Varsity out of Oakington (Cambridge), my instructor spilt his coffee over the throttles & all those other funny levers!. No problem thankfuuly resulted, but the spilt coffee having started its journey as brown, appeared at the bottom of the quadrant, as black sludge!
Just take care guys & gals.
You mentioned `Fate Is The Hunter` by Ernest Gann. I agree with you totally, the book was superb & should even to this day, be mandatory reading for all aspiring aviators, the film unfortunately did not come close to the book.
In particular, when it comes to CRM, Flight Deck & Crew Management etc, both `Fate Is The Hunter`(book) & Capt Al Haynes presentation re United 232 (Sioux City DC10) should be part of any course syllabus.
For me, many years ago when training on the Varsity out of Oakington (Cambridge), my instructor spilt his coffee over the throttles & all those other funny levers!. No problem thankfuuly resulted, but the spilt coffee having started its journey as brown, appeared at the bottom of the quadrant, as black sludge!
Just take care guys & gals.
Paxing All Over The World
I wonder if someone is confusing or conflating this event with another? In the UK, there was a bad prang that has become known as the Kegworth Disaster. January 8, 1989, British Midland BD092, Boeing 737
As I recall, after a fire warning an engine was shut down and they continued on one to make an early set down at alternate. Unfortunately, the failing engine was the one still operational and then it gave up. They fell about half a mile short of the runway on finals.
IF this is being wrapped up in it, then coffee was not part of it. So I wonder how much this is a bar room story? That said, such things do happen, as has been shown above.
As I recall, after a fire warning an engine was shut down and they continued on one to make an early set down at alternate. Unfortunately, the failing engine was the one still operational and then it gave up. They fell about half a mile short of the runway on finals.
IF this is being wrapped up in it, then coffee was not part of it. So I wonder how much this is a bar room story? That said, such things do happen, as has been shown above.
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Indeed PB, the Kegworth incident was a laterality problem, where in the heat of the moment, the FO called out the wrong engine number to shutdown having looked at the dials & miscomputed the failing engine. IIRC Boeing rejigged the engine parameter dials after that one. No coffee involved though.
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book vs movie
However, there was a movie produced quite some years ago, called 'Fate Is The Hunter'. It was supposedly based on Ernest Gann's famous book of the same name.
Gann also wrote another dozen or so excellent books. "Band of Brothers" is one of my favorites; it has probably been banned in Taiwan.
Buttonpusher
I remember yonks ago on the 727 one of our more colorful captains(who has long since passed away) spilt a cup of coffee onto the radio panel, in order to show a flight attendant that the radios were hermetically sealed..... they proceeded to have a partial radio failure.
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The 'Fate is the Hunter' movie used an ex-AA DC-7, that was flown into KSMO, dismantled and trucked to the 20th Century Fox lot, and modified severly, for the film.
And as for the Kegworth UK accident...crew screw-up, of the highest order.
No doubt about it.
And as for the Kegworth UK accident...crew screw-up, of the highest order.
No doubt about it.
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Not a "crash," but something...
(snipped here and there for formatting)
NTSB Identification: FTW72IF046
14 CFR Part 121 Scheduled operation of CONTINENTAL AIR LINES INC
Event occurred Friday, January 21, 1972 in EL PASO, TX
Aircraft: BOEING 720B, registration: N57206
N57206
72/1/21 NR.EL PASO,TEX BOEING 720B SCHED DOM PASSG SRV AIRLINE TRANSPORT
CLASSIFIED AS INCIDENT OPERATOR - CONTINENTAL AIR LINES,INC.
DEPARTURE POINT HOUSTON,TEX INTENDED DESTINATION LOS ANGELES,CALIF
TYPE OF ACCIDENT MISCELLANEOUS
PHASE OF OPERATION IN FLIGHT: NORMAL CRUISE
PROBABLE CAUSE(S) SYSTEMS - FLIGHT CONTROL SYSTEMS: FLIGHT CONTROL BOOST SYSTEM, ELECTRICAL
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - GROUNDED MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - FROZEN, MOISTURE
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - INTERFERENCE WITH FLIGHT CONTROLS
EMERGENCY CIRCUMSTANCES - PRECAUTIONARY LANDING ON AIRPORT DIRECTIONAL CONTROL PROBLEM SUSPECTED MECHANICAL DISCREPANCY
REMARKS- SPILLED COFFEE IN COCKPIT DRIPPED ON YAW DAMPER COUPLER PLUG,CAUSED SHORT. ACFT ENTERED DUTCH ROLL.
(snipped here and there for formatting)
NTSB Identification: FTW72IF046
14 CFR Part 121 Scheduled operation of CONTINENTAL AIR LINES INC
Event occurred Friday, January 21, 1972 in EL PASO, TX
Aircraft: BOEING 720B, registration: N57206
N57206
72/1/21 NR.EL PASO,TEX BOEING 720B SCHED DOM PASSG SRV AIRLINE TRANSPORT
CLASSIFIED AS INCIDENT OPERATOR - CONTINENTAL AIR LINES,INC.
DEPARTURE POINT HOUSTON,TEX INTENDED DESTINATION LOS ANGELES,CALIF
TYPE OF ACCIDENT MISCELLANEOUS
PHASE OF OPERATION IN FLIGHT: NORMAL CRUISE
PROBABLE CAUSE(S) SYSTEMS - FLIGHT CONTROL SYSTEMS: FLIGHT CONTROL BOOST SYSTEM, ELECTRICAL
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - GROUNDED MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - FROZEN, MOISTURE
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - INTERFERENCE WITH FLIGHT CONTROLS
EMERGENCY CIRCUMSTANCES - PRECAUTIONARY LANDING ON AIRPORT DIRECTIONAL CONTROL PROBLEM SUSPECTED MECHANICAL DISCREPANCY
REMARKS- SPILLED COFFEE IN COCKPIT DRIPPED ON YAW DAMPER COUPLER PLUG,CAUSED SHORT. ACFT ENTERED DUTCH ROLL.
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Semaphore, I'm remembering exactly the same one. I think it was a fence -- kind of like a sand break -- that the plane ran into when it landed on the beach. And Dean Martin was one of the deceased pilot's friends, and to figure out what had gone wrong, eventually took an identical plane up to re-create the flight.
I guess some of the people on board had survived, because I remember a stewardess (as she was called then) telling Martin, who was flying, that at that same point in the flight she'd entered the cockpit and given the captain coffee. So Martin told her she should give him some, because he didn't want to miss any detail, no matter how small. Then he put the coffee on the center panel, and eventually it fell over, and he got the same "indication" as the first pilot would have. And I think Martin then turns off an engine.
But it's already been established that one of the engines had developed a problem. So the false indication had led him to turn off the wrong engine. Martin re-starts the one he stopped, and all is fine.
He has some line at the end about how his friend's death wasn't in vain, because now the consoles would be sealed differently -- or maybe the pilots would be told not to put their coffee cups on them -- so lots of lives actually will have been saved thru his friend's death.
I guess some of the people on board had survived, because I remember a stewardess (as she was called then) telling Martin, who was flying, that at that same point in the flight she'd entered the cockpit and given the captain coffee. So Martin told her she should give him some, because he didn't want to miss any detail, no matter how small. Then he put the coffee on the center panel, and eventually it fell over, and he got the same "indication" as the first pilot would have. And I think Martin then turns off an engine.
But it's already been established that one of the engines had developed a problem. So the false indication had led him to turn off the wrong engine. Martin re-starts the one he stopped, and all is fine.
He has some line at the end about how his friend's death wasn't in vain, because now the consoles would be sealed differently -- or maybe the pilots would be told not to put their coffee cups on them -- so lots of lives actually will have been saved thru his friend's death.
I do recall a friend of mine, who was a captain on Heralds some time ago, telling me of the horrendous corrosion problems caused by tea & coffee spilling on the floor - ISTR the galley area was quite near the front door, and corrosion was found underneath the floor area and resulted in one airframe being scrapped??? 
Reynolds, Eastern Provincial Airways lost a Herald that came apart in the air due to corrosion in the galley/toilet area at the front of the cabin. They were on the climb out of Halifax to Sydney, passing 15,000 in the vicinity of Copper Lake when the fuselage split in two. The autopsy of the stewardess revealed that she'd died of a heart attack. From her seat at the back of the cabin she'd watched the aircraft come apart.
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Spilling coffee into electrical or communications equipment is obviously going to cause major problems. The effects may not always appear immediately - my computer keyboard mysteriously failed recently. Being careful with money, I took it apart to try and repair it.
The cause of the trouble was corrosive destruction of some of the fine silver tracks on the circuit board, associated with an anonymous brown stain - clearly very old tea or coffee.
I succeessfully repaired it by repainting in the lines with silver conductive paint - as sold by Halfords for car heated rear windows.
Perhaps every air-liner should carry a small bottle in the cockpit, for those essential in-flight emergency repairs?
The cause of the trouble was corrosive destruction of some of the fine silver tracks on the circuit board, associated with an anonymous brown stain - clearly very old tea or coffee.
I succeessfully repaired it by repainting in the lines with silver conductive paint - as sold by Halfords for car heated rear windows.
Perhaps every air-liner should carry a small bottle in the cockpit, for those essential in-flight emergency repairs?
Buttonpusher
Good idea.... but the security Nazis would have a field day if they found a screwdriver in your flight bag...the potential is there for you to "take over the plane" with the screwdriver...
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If I was a professional pilot I would be quite happy to have my coffee or tea or any liquid dispensed in a kids cup with the non spill lid. Why, in the light of serious expense involved in cleaning a coffee spill in electronically dominated cockpits, is this not the norm? It means one can drink during turbulence without spilling onto one's shirt and would alleviate at a stroke almost any possibility of causing problems on the flight deck. The cost, in real terms, of providing disposable versions would be in pennies. Dry cleaning bills less. I am sure a good Industrial Designer could produce a Street Cred version to satisfy flight deck egos! 
Aviate 1138 Strictly VFR
Aviate 1138 Strictly VFR
Coffee in the cockpit?
Slight diversion I know chaps & chapesses....
However, TRUE STORY... (Really)
Many moons ago.....
Early morning departure from Kalgoorlie in WA to Warburton Range community WA. Nice 2.5 hour flight.
Filled thermos with boiling water / black coffee with sugar / from urn in Kal FSU, jumped in trusty old C210 and on departure climbed to A100 where the sunrise was beeaaudiful. Trimmed out, ah, coffee time...
Put thermos between knees, opened same, and, "AH SH**T - the bloody thing BOILED AGAIN!!
Not much room to 'dance in' but did manage to 'control' most of overflow.
And, yes it DID hurt.
No, I never noticed the continuing sunrise.
With the o/head air vents - generous in the '210', managed to cool 'things' down...
Reduced pressure at A100 you idiot!!!
No real damage, had s o m e coffee, and now possess new thermos with a valve and 'cupped' top.
(Mrs 'G' still loved me...)
Moral of the story??
'Things' go better with Coke!!! (Sorry, couldn't resist that one...)
Cheers...
However, TRUE STORY... (Really)
Many moons ago.....
Early morning departure from Kalgoorlie in WA to Warburton Range community WA. Nice 2.5 hour flight.
Filled thermos with boiling water / black coffee with sugar / from urn in Kal FSU, jumped in trusty old C210 and on departure climbed to A100 where the sunrise was beeaaudiful. Trimmed out, ah, coffee time...
Put thermos between knees, opened same, and, "AH SH**T - the bloody thing BOILED AGAIN!!
Not much room to 'dance in' but did manage to 'control' most of overflow.
And, yes it DID hurt.
No, I never noticed the continuing sunrise.
With the o/head air vents - generous in the '210', managed to cool 'things' down...
Reduced pressure at A100 you idiot!!!
No real damage, had s o m e coffee, and now possess new thermos with a valve and 'cupped' top.
(Mrs 'G' still loved me...)
Moral of the story??
'Things' go better with Coke!!! (Sorry, couldn't resist that one...)
Cheers...
