Laser injures Delta pilot's eye
Union Goon
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In 1993 I was working for Grand Airways based in Las Vegas when the Rio hotel went up.
They put up a laser light show as part of their advertising for the new hotel that turned out to be aimed up the arrival cooridor for McCarren Airport (LAS).
Grand Airways had 2 pilots injured and America West has a few as well. This went on for 3 weeks before they moved it.
This is nothing new unfortunately, just getting more and more common.
Cheers
Wino
They put up a laser light show as part of their advertising for the new hotel that turned out to be aimed up the arrival cooridor for McCarren Airport (LAS).
Grand Airways had 2 pilots injured and America West has a few as well. This went on for 3 weeks before they moved it.
This is nothing new unfortunately, just getting more and more common.
Cheers
Wino
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The threat is real, and is preventable. There needs to be a more powerful response when things like this occur.
An accident is an accident, but the intentional pointing of a laser or bright light into an aviation cockpit not only endangers the pilot but numerous people, both on and above the ground.
I had a laser pointer run across my eye from across the room once; thankfully there was no permanent damage, but my eye did tear up and burned for over a month before it healed itself.
An accident is an accident, but the intentional pointing of a laser or bright light into an aviation cockpit not only endangers the pilot but numerous people, both on and above the ground.
I had a laser pointer run across my eye from across the room once; thankfully there was no permanent damage, but my eye did tear up and burned for over a month before it healed itself.
Rotornut,
I have been trying to find something on that incident. I seem to remember reading that one of the people involved suffered long term damage to his vision. Not sure what to use to Google it but the info must be around.
Rotornut,
Should have looked a bit more.
"The crew of the Canadian CH-124 Sea King helicopter received hostile fire from a laser weapon on the Kapitan Man," Mr. Smith said. "As a result of this unprovoked attack in U.S. waters, Cmdr. Daly\'s eyes were permanently burned, as was the right eye of the helicopter\'s pilot, Captain Barnes, which ended his flying career."
This would be the case you were referring to. Not sure what kind of laser was used. The Russian vessel was searched but nothing found. Probably at the bottom of The Strait of Juan de Fuca.
I have been trying to find something on that incident. I seem to remember reading that one of the people involved suffered long term damage to his vision. Not sure what to use to Google it but the info must be around.
Rotornut,
Should have looked a bit more.
"The crew of the Canadian CH-124 Sea King helicopter received hostile fire from a laser weapon on the Kapitan Man," Mr. Smith said. "As a result of this unprovoked attack in U.S. waters, Cmdr. Daly\'s eyes were permanently burned, as was the right eye of the helicopter\'s pilot, Captain Barnes, which ended his flying career."
This would be the case you were referring to. Not sure what kind of laser was used. The Russian vessel was searched but nothing found. Probably at the bottom of The Strait of Juan de Fuca.
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What do you think?
Here's from the BBC:
US probes 'laser-tracked' flights
US investigators are examining a spate of cases in which laser beams have been shone into the cockpits of aircraft.
The most recent case was in Cleveland, Ohio, on Monday night, where a pilot says a green laser light was shone through the window of his cockpit.
The light tracked with the plane for several seconds as it came in to land.
The FBI, worried that terrorist may use lasers to stun and disorientate pilots, is investigating a series of similar incidents involving lasers.
The FBI has recently warned law enforcement agencies that terrorist have explored using lasers as weapons. However, authorities say they have no specific intelligence to link the incidents with al-Qaeda activities in the US.
"It didn't just splash and vanish, which made the pilot believe he was being tracked," FBI agent Robert Hawk told AFP news agency.
The pilot landed the plane and the FBI traced the beam to a residential area of Cleveland.
Six similar incidents are being examined by the FBI.
On Monday, two pilots in Colorado reported green pulsating laser beams in their cockpits in Colorado Springs. Both planes landed without incident
US probes 'laser-tracked' flights
US investigators are examining a spate of cases in which laser beams have been shone into the cockpits of aircraft.
The most recent case was in Cleveland, Ohio, on Monday night, where a pilot says a green laser light was shone through the window of his cockpit.
The light tracked with the plane for several seconds as it came in to land.
The FBI, worried that terrorist may use lasers to stun and disorientate pilots, is investigating a series of similar incidents involving lasers.
The FBI has recently warned law enforcement agencies that terrorist have explored using lasers as weapons. However, authorities say they have no specific intelligence to link the incidents with al-Qaeda activities in the US.
"It didn't just splash and vanish, which made the pilot believe he was being tracked," FBI agent Robert Hawk told AFP news agency.
The pilot landed the plane and the FBI traced the beam to a residential area of Cleveland.
Six similar incidents are being examined by the FBI.
On Monday, two pilots in Colorado reported green pulsating laser beams in their cockpits in Colorado Springs. Both planes landed without incident
Last edited by agfoxx; 31st Dec 2004 at 02:08.
This topic reminded me of warnings not long ago about Las Vegas casinos in an ALPA magazine safety article, and I just now noticed Wino's comments- am surprised that this was not brought up sooner. Edited for unneeded duplication.
Can the FBI attempt to prosecute anyone, whether at a casino or not, who intentionally shines these into a c@ckp1t/flightdeck, on a repeated basis? The FBI might not want to publicize the fact that some of these are a threat. Some segments of the flying public are not too different from mindless sheep or chickens anyway. A police helicopter might "troll" for the location of any powerful beams coming from devices which are in private hands, in residential or isolated areas. They already patrol for marijuana patches and meth labs in the south and midwest. I am all for a stiff warning then prosecution when called for, after a repeated offense. Maybe have two car loads of pilots ( take a few Navy SEALS along in an 'advisory capacity') drive repeat offenders into the desert for a chat with a few rattlesnakes, as incentive, then bring him/them back to Vegas etc with something to contemplate. This gives the nickname (for a Nevada area which does not exist) 'Dreamland' a whole new meaning.
H.G. Wells seems to have anticipated these in his story "War of the Worlds".
Maybe the government should have lists of which facilities/casinos have the more powerful versions, in case some are stolen.
Can the FBI attempt to prosecute anyone, whether at a casino or not, who intentionally shines these into a c@ckp1t/flightdeck, on a repeated basis? The FBI might not want to publicize the fact that some of these are a threat. Some segments of the flying public are not too different from mindless sheep or chickens anyway. A police helicopter might "troll" for the location of any powerful beams coming from devices which are in private hands, in residential or isolated areas. They already patrol for marijuana patches and meth labs in the south and midwest. I am all for a stiff warning then prosecution when called for, after a repeated offense. Maybe have two car loads of pilots ( take a few Navy SEALS along in an 'advisory capacity') drive repeat offenders into the desert for a chat with a few rattlesnakes, as incentive, then bring him/them back to Vegas etc with something to contemplate. This gives the nickname (for a Nevada area which does not exist) 'Dreamland' a whole new meaning.
H.G. Wells seems to have anticipated these in his story "War of the Worlds".
Maybe the government should have lists of which facilities/casinos have the more powerful versions, in case some are stolen.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 2nd Jan 2005 at 03:32.
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The Source of the LASER "WeaponS"
www.lasershoppe.com
has acknowledged that they've stopped selling the powerful green LASERs that are being used to annoy pilots on approach
has acknowledged that they've stopped selling the powerful green LASERs that are being used to annoy pilots on approach
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In the 70's I spent many happy hours devising laser-beam steering mechanisms, electronics, software, etc. for light shows and other purposes, with laser-beam power levels of 1 to 20 watts. Back in the days when laser shows were completely unregulated, relatively basic and mostly hand-made technology cribbed together for the occasion was up to the task of writing legible text on a wall (or cloud).
This was also before the advent of high-power semiconductor lasers, so most of the light sources were great hulking water cooled boxes with 10 or 20 KW coursing thru them to make the beam, and water cooling to keep the temps down at the prevailing power efficiencies of 0.007 percent or so. They weren't portable in any sense.
These days, permits and inspections and such, along with thick rule books, impose tight controls on aerial discharge of light beams... with procedures specifically intended to prevent eye damage in the event of casual unintended contact.
Laser diodes have made the optical power source easier to carry and afford, but beam aiming is still very challenging at any long distance if done from anything but a superstable platform. Successfully putting a single beam through a small window aperture on a rapidly-moving target, in real time, and on short notice is not really much easier than it would be with a projectile weapon. Doing that continuously or even repeatedly for one or two seconds seems very nearly impossible to me, using manual or simple mechanical and electronic means for aiming.
The one simple technique that would "appear" to work for such a time duration is to scan the target vicinity quite rapidly with the beam (perhaps spread out to make it cover a wider surface) moving in a pattern that would tend to periodically sweep all points on a larger surface. This process of "waving it around" greatly dilutes the cumulative beam power on any surface, however, be it eyeball or skin.
Because the mechanism of damage from laser light is tissue heating at the microscopic scale, the cumulative intensity on a surface in a given period of time is the metric of danger for permanent damage. I don't have the tables handy, but my intuitive guess is that
100 mw at the source for example, would not be able to cause much ocular tissue damage after a few hundred meters of normal surface atmosphere, however well it might be aimed and focussed at the source.
With even 5 mw of distant visible beam, one certainly is very aware of being targeted. The brightness of frequent flashes can be subjectively quite spectacular, and certainly would be a worrisome distraction during night flight.
It might be some consolation to know that truly damaging laser light works so rapidly that one tends to not actually even see it.
More sophisticated methods, which I will not detail here, can be applied to provide near continuous tracking with a laser beam of a spot on distant moving surface, but the cost and complexity to do any of these in a field-able way would take them far out of the kitchen-table category, and the result even then would probably not be readily capable of reliably "blinding" the unhappy recipient after running through the atmosphere, window material, etc. Anyone with the motivation, skill and budget to produce that type of device would likely be able to devise much more dangerous effects with equivalent effort.
So, my guess would be that the actors in many of the inflight illumination incidents are amateurs...trying to find something interesting to point at with their expensive toys.
This was also before the advent of high-power semiconductor lasers, so most of the light sources were great hulking water cooled boxes with 10 or 20 KW coursing thru them to make the beam, and water cooling to keep the temps down at the prevailing power efficiencies of 0.007 percent or so. They weren't portable in any sense.
These days, permits and inspections and such, along with thick rule books, impose tight controls on aerial discharge of light beams... with procedures specifically intended to prevent eye damage in the event of casual unintended contact.
Laser diodes have made the optical power source easier to carry and afford, but beam aiming is still very challenging at any long distance if done from anything but a superstable platform. Successfully putting a single beam through a small window aperture on a rapidly-moving target, in real time, and on short notice is not really much easier than it would be with a projectile weapon. Doing that continuously or even repeatedly for one or two seconds seems very nearly impossible to me, using manual or simple mechanical and electronic means for aiming.
The one simple technique that would "appear" to work for such a time duration is to scan the target vicinity quite rapidly with the beam (perhaps spread out to make it cover a wider surface) moving in a pattern that would tend to periodically sweep all points on a larger surface. This process of "waving it around" greatly dilutes the cumulative beam power on any surface, however, be it eyeball or skin.
Because the mechanism of damage from laser light is tissue heating at the microscopic scale, the cumulative intensity on a surface in a given period of time is the metric of danger for permanent damage. I don't have the tables handy, but my intuitive guess is that
100 mw at the source for example, would not be able to cause much ocular tissue damage after a few hundred meters of normal surface atmosphere, however well it might be aimed and focussed at the source.
With even 5 mw of distant visible beam, one certainly is very aware of being targeted. The brightness of frequent flashes can be subjectively quite spectacular, and certainly would be a worrisome distraction during night flight.
It might be some consolation to know that truly damaging laser light works so rapidly that one tends to not actually even see it.
More sophisticated methods, which I will not detail here, can be applied to provide near continuous tracking with a laser beam of a spot on distant moving surface, but the cost and complexity to do any of these in a field-able way would take them far out of the kitchen-table category, and the result even then would probably not be readily capable of reliably "blinding" the unhappy recipient after running through the atmosphere, window material, etc. Anyone with the motivation, skill and budget to produce that type of device would likely be able to devise much more dangerous effects with equivalent effort.
So, my guess would be that the actors in many of the inflight illumination incidents are amateurs...trying to find something interesting to point at with their expensive toys.
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What would be the experience of pilot of a slow-moving, low-flying GA aircraft, turning final only 500’ above some oik with his laser pen? The effects may not be permanent, but a solo pilot seconds from landing is presumably very vulnerable?
I seem to remember Steve “I can’t hold her, she’s breaking up, she’s breaking up” Austin, The Bionic Man, when faced with a similar situation, reverted to breaking the glass on his AH and flew truly blind by the feel of his fingers…
I seem to remember Steve “I can’t hold her, she’s breaking up, she’s breaking up” Austin, The Bionic Man, when faced with a similar situation, reverted to breaking the glass on his AH and flew truly blind by the feel of his fingers…
It's not just the lasers that are a problem. There are 1 million candlepower handheld torches available now. My local garage will sell you on for £6.99 if you buy 6 quids worth of fuel. I mention this, as some pillock shone one at me (I assumed it was one of these due to it's brightness) while I was at 3DME on the approach to 06R at MAN a couple of weeks ago.
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FBI to aggressively "go after" laser users targeting aircraft.
From a CNN report 5 minutes ago:
Citing the targeting of an approaching aircraft at Cleveland.
FBI to aggressively "go after" laser users targeting aircraft.
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/12/29...lane/index.htm
ImageGear
Citing the targeting of an approaching aircraft at Cleveland.
FBI to aggressively "go after" laser users targeting aircraft.
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/12/29...lane/index.htm
ImageGear
Still behind the curtain
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The following is a message I received from a professional photographer friend regarding the laser threat:
---
What concerns investigators is the apparent ability of the "Laser Dudes" to TRACK the cockpits, over a period of several seconds, and to "wash," or mechanically oscillate the beam into a wide-coverage pattern of the cockpits with the laser beam.
As a matter of personal perspective, as a photographer... if you were to attempt to track a landing aircraft with a camera, and a 400mm telephoto lens, you could not hold the camera/lens steady enough, without some mechanical support, to follow the aircraft smoothly.
Motion Picture cameramen, and still photographers who specialize in aviation, use fluid-damped tripod heads, very big and very expensive, and shoot a LOT to edit out a small amount of footage, or a few sharp, well-composed frames.
It is clear that these events are NOT some overweight, freckle-faced, red-headed 16-year-old kid with a laser pointer. Whoever it is has sophisticated equipment.
Minimally, it would have to be a heavy-duty tripod with a fluid head, and probably a computer controlled platform.
More evidence for computer-control is the "washing" of the cockpits. This requires a C-C platform, and the same sort of software that moves the lasers used in Laser Light shows, in dance clubs and at public events, as it has to vary the "aim" of a single small-diameter beam around the target area at
many times per second.
Finally, the reports include that not all these Laser Events are red
lasers. Some are reported as blue-green.
I have not seen a blue-green laser pointer, although I would happily be corrected on this matter by anyone who uses these things regularly.
---
What concerns investigators is the apparent ability of the "Laser Dudes" to TRACK the cockpits, over a period of several seconds, and to "wash," or mechanically oscillate the beam into a wide-coverage pattern of the cockpits with the laser beam.
As a matter of personal perspective, as a photographer... if you were to attempt to track a landing aircraft with a camera, and a 400mm telephoto lens, you could not hold the camera/lens steady enough, without some mechanical support, to follow the aircraft smoothly.
Motion Picture cameramen, and still photographers who specialize in aviation, use fluid-damped tripod heads, very big and very expensive, and shoot a LOT to edit out a small amount of footage, or a few sharp, well-composed frames.
It is clear that these events are NOT some overweight, freckle-faced, red-headed 16-year-old kid with a laser pointer. Whoever it is has sophisticated equipment.
Minimally, it would have to be a heavy-duty tripod with a fluid head, and probably a computer controlled platform.
More evidence for computer-control is the "washing" of the cockpits. This requires a C-C platform, and the same sort of software that moves the lasers used in Laser Light shows, in dance clubs and at public events, as it has to vary the "aim" of a single small-diameter beam around the target area at
many times per second.
Finally, the reports include that not all these Laser Events are red
lasers. Some are reported as blue-green.
I have not seen a blue-green laser pointer, although I would happily be corrected on this matter by anyone who uses these things regularly.
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Just noticed this on CNN.com
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/31/air...ser/index.html
(CNN) -- Law enforcement officers were questioning a Parsippany, New Jersey, man who they say may have pointed a laser beam at an airborne police helicopter Friday night and a Cessna aircraft two nights before, said a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.
The officers spent much of Friday trying to determine the source of the laser beam reported by a Cessna pilot Wednesday night, spokesman Steve Coleman said. The flight was carrying about a dozen passengers.
As a Port Authority helicopter circled the New York area Friday, using information from the Cessna pilot, someone aimed a laser beam at the aircraft between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m., Coleman said. He said the helicopter had Port Authority markings.
There were no injuries or other problems from either incident, he said.
The man was being questioned at his home by members of the FBI-New York Police Department Joint Terrorism Task Force and FBI agents. He has not been arrested, Coleman said.
Coleman said authorities were trying to determine whether the man might have been involved in similar incidents.
The officers spent much of Friday trying to determine the source of the laser beam reported by a Cessna pilot Wednesday night, spokesman Steve Coleman said. The flight was carrying about a dozen passengers.
As a Port Authority helicopter circled the New York area Friday, using information from the Cessna pilot, someone aimed a laser beam at the aircraft between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m., Coleman said. He said the helicopter had Port Authority markings.
There were no injuries or other problems from either incident, he said.
The man was being questioned at his home by members of the FBI-New York Police Department Joint Terrorism Task Force and FBI agents. He has not been arrested, Coleman said.
Coleman said authorities were trying to determine whether the man might have been involved in similar incidents.
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>>It's not just the lasers that are a problem. There are 1 million candlepower handheld torches available now.
Yep, another report of a possible Christmas light incident:
__________________________________________
Bright light near airport bothers pilot
By Mike Gordon
Advertiser Staff Writer
Somewhere on O'ahu today, a homeowner is rethinking the number of outdoor lights he turns on at night after the Federal Aviation Administration and Honolulu police told him they bothered a commercial airliner pilot making his approach to Honolulu International Airport. Authorities couldn't say today, though, if the lights were part of a Christmas display.
The problem began just after midnight Monday when a pilot on a commercial flight from Los Angeles complained about "a very bright, bright light" near the airport, said Donn Walker, an FAA spokesman based in Los Angeles.
"I don't know if the bright light made it hard for him to see," Walker said today. "I don't know how well he was able to see because of the light. All I know is that it was bright enough for him to report it."
The flight landed safely, and Walker said he did not know if the pilot was ever in danger of losing control of the airplane.
But at the FAA's request, Honolulu police searched the area Monday night and found a likely source of the problem: a very blue and green floodlight from a home.
Authorities told the homeowner to unplug the light, Walker said.
Police then checked the area on two nights, including a noisy 11 p.m. helicopter search yesterday near Mariner's Ridge.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../br/br05p.html
Yep, another report of a possible Christmas light incident:
__________________________________________
Bright light near airport bothers pilot
By Mike Gordon
Advertiser Staff Writer
Somewhere on O'ahu today, a homeowner is rethinking the number of outdoor lights he turns on at night after the Federal Aviation Administration and Honolulu police told him they bothered a commercial airliner pilot making his approach to Honolulu International Airport. Authorities couldn't say today, though, if the lights were part of a Christmas display.
The problem began just after midnight Monday when a pilot on a commercial flight from Los Angeles complained about "a very bright, bright light" near the airport, said Donn Walker, an FAA spokesman based in Los Angeles.
"I don't know if the bright light made it hard for him to see," Walker said today. "I don't know how well he was able to see because of the light. All I know is that it was bright enough for him to report it."
The flight landed safely, and Walker said he did not know if the pilot was ever in danger of losing control of the airplane.
But at the FAA's request, Honolulu police searched the area Monday night and found a likely source of the problem: a very blue and green floodlight from a home.
Authorities told the homeowner to unplug the light, Walker said.
Police then checked the area on two nights, including a noisy 11 p.m. helicopter search yesterday near Mariner's Ridge.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../br/br05p.html
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Follow-up on New Jersey laser incident (which I posted above):
For the complete story, click on the local newspaper's URL:
http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/arti...ews2-laser.htm
(It doesn't add much to the excerpt I have posted here.)
PARSIPPANY -- The attorney of a Lake Parsippany resident questioned by authorities about his suspected use of a laser light said Saturday her client was in the "wrong place at the wrong time."
David Banach was showing his daughter a common laser pointer that he had purchased on the Internet, said attorney Gina Mendola Longarzo. Longarzo said she met with Banach on Saturday.
"At one moment he was in the backyard playing with his daughter," said Longarzo, "and 10 minutes later 12 police cars descended and he was whisked away by authorities and interrogated until 4 a.m."
Banach was taken from his Pitman Road home Friday by state, local and federal authorities investigating the shining of green lasers onto aircraft flying over the region.
David Banach was showing his daughter a common laser pointer that he had purchased on the Internet, said attorney Gina Mendola Longarzo. Longarzo said she met with Banach on Saturday.
"At one moment he was in the backyard playing with his daughter," said Longarzo, "and 10 minutes later 12 police cars descended and he was whisked away by authorities and interrogated until 4 a.m."
Banach was taken from his Pitman Road home Friday by state, local and federal authorities investigating the shining of green lasers onto aircraft flying over the region.
http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/arti...ews2-laser.htm
(It doesn't add much to the excerpt I have posted here.)
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<<<<What concerns investigators is the apparent ability of the "Laser Dudes" to TRACK the cockpits, over a period of several seconds, and to "wash," or mechanically oscillate the beam into a wide-coverage pattern of the cockpits with the laser beam.>>>