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Landing a MD-11 (the hard way is not funny...)

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Landing a MD-11 (the hard way is not funny...)

Old 10th Mar 2002, 04:21
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Post Landing a MD-11 (the hard way is not funny...)

Take a look at this clip and try to make a reasonable assesment as of what happened to this Alitalia MD-11.. .. .<a href="http://www.nlc-campus.nl/md11.mpg" target="_blank">http://www.nlc-campus.nl/md11.mpg</a>
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 04:59
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The FCOM is pretty specific - establish the crab early, as it adds so much drag that you may be surprised by the sink rate it causes. . .. .Also, below 50 feet the autothrottles go to idle, so the sink rate can really ramp up with no power to compensate. And we can't go manual throttles, can we?. .. .These new airplanes really fly themselves. My guess is a habitual (or company-procedural) over-reliance on autoland - which has to be turned off above 15 kts crosswind. So you learn to fly the plane in the worst possible conditions.. .. .I've had instructor pilots tell me there is no reason to maintain hand-flying skills in the MD-11. I'll send them this clip.
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 05:24
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Thumbs down

Please could you forewarn people when there is a big file to download. For anyone else it is 4.62MB and takes around 20 mins. I also wasn't too charmed when, at 99% downloaded, it suddenly flashed up the message that access to the file was denied and promptly shut it down - any idea why? It has since taken forever to get the reply screen to appear. I'm off to run a virus check. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 07:14
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&gt;&gt;Please could you forewarn people when there is a big file to download. For anyone else it is 4.62MB and takes around 20 mins.. .. .Well, it ran fine and loaded almost instantly over a cable modem. I've had highspeed internet in hotel rooms in Asia lately, sometimes absolutely free. The airport in SIN has wireless if you have a card.. .. .I will admit that the concept of connecting a computer to the Internet is still a rather novel concept in many places in Europe. A local call often costs a euro a minute from a hotel room. You can expect a video clip to be a large file for a slow dialup connection but at least some "friend" didn't e-mail it to you and bomb your inbox...
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 07:15
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Took me about 10 min to load, with a plain old dial up connection. Before everyone wades in with pithy comments on how badly the PF did that day , ask your self this question. Would you be happy if video of your worst landing ever was broadcast around the world ,to be replayed again and again ?. .I have dented my fair share of runways over the years so I am not going to throw any stones from my ( very ) transparent house.
 
Old 10th Mar 2002, 07:19
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to DX Wombat. .. .Well sorry about that! It takes me less than 2 min to download and play the clip which by the way it's crystal clear with a great sound. I guess is my ADSL(220 kbps) connection and the 500 Mhz machine that helps. It appears that your server(internet provider) has limited acces to www !?
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 07:25
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Took me less than four minutes to load and play. If someone ever taped every grauncher I've ever done, 'twould take longer than that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 08:01
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No problems at all. DLS here loads up to 756 kbit/sec, windows media player 7.1 jumps in and superfast machine plays a nice movie with a . .scary touchdown. Tires seem ok. What irritates me: he touches just on runway edge downwind side just avoiding right maingear in the green?
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 08:02
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Asthis appears to be Kai Tak - setting up the crab early might have been tough. He almost missed the runway!
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 08:16
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Not casting any stones!. .. .Does anyone know a site/s that has more of these. .video clips?
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 10:28
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Im always the first to admit that i'm not perfect. I mean, we all do the odd bad landing every now and then. I've certainly had more than my share... While this one is pretty shocking, I have seen, and been a passenger on aircraft that have done worse... I was on a Qantas Link Bae146 landing in Brisbane in August last year. I believe we touched down about 5 times. First was the R-main with a thud, causing all the lights to flicker, and overhead bins to open. The pilot overcorrected, and now (floating back in the air with nothing on the ground) he crunches the L-main down, with the R-main airborne again. Then, before the R-Main gets back on the ground, the nose gear bangs down, and there is an ear piercing crunching metal noise. R-Main touches down, about 2 feet from the side of the runway. It didnt bother me to much, but there were other passengers screaming, and the flight attendants looked a tad nervous... Probably didnt help the Captain and FO's egos, when as the passengers exited the aircraft, and walked towards the terminal, there were 2 drunk ones (not me) laughing and pointing up at the flight deck from outside at the front of the aircraft. The aircraft also sat on an awkward angle.... .Anyway... as embarrasing as it might be... everyone does them... Its like farting in public.. sometimes you cant help it!
 
Old 10th Mar 2002, 11:49
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If you look very carefully, the smoke from the tyres seems to drift pretty rapidly from left to right.. .. .Also, whilst the aircraft is rolling down the runway, you'll see that in to view come four yellow lights, behind the third of which there's a windsock.. .If you watch that windsock you'll note that it goes from hanging limp (at the moment of the aircraft touchdown) to horizontal 5 seconds later - though it's not clear if that's due to a gust of wind or as a result of the aircraft's wake.. .. .So, with the proviso that 'people in glass houses.....' et al, perhaps we can be generous and say that it looks like it might have been a quite gusty day - but that said, it's amazing to see just how much punishment the oleos can soak up if needs be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 13:36
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I do not see any real problem with this one, sure for the pax a little rough, however given its in to Hong Kong from either the NDB Rwy 13 or the 13 IGS approach with some X/W, not too bad.Also its on a Monday! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 14:40
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Got this recently from another post. Those of you with a modem may take a while to download the files, but the size is mentioned before you start.. .. .<a href="http://www.aviationpics.de/mov/civ/civ.htm" target="_blank">www.aviationpics.de/mov/civ/civ.htm</a>. .. .ops forgot to add the address.. . . . <small>[ 10 March 2002, 14:31: Message edited by: All That Glitters ]</small>
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 15:43
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Talking of memorable 'landings', can any 747 pilots explain this one to me, as a simple avionics man. Years ago I was flying Big Airways from Singapore to Perth, with an 03.00 arrival. Left side window seat, business class - previous life.. .. .Captain comes on the PA and tells us we'll be starting descent in two or three minutes - and it's such a beautiful night he can already see the lights of Perth. So far so good. Down we came and I began to see houses and streets. We got down to around 5 or 6,000 feet - and its about then I began to feel just a little uneasy. I was spending half my life on 747's and I knew this one was still motoring for the altitude and, more to the point, it felt seriously nose down. Nose down? Maybe my ears are screwed up I thought and looked at the nearest available attitude indicator - how the galley curtains were hanging. Sure enough, we are barrelling towards an airfield, now at 2,000 feet, at a helluva lick and with 7 to 10 degrees nose down - in a 747.. .. .Looking forward I could now see the perimeter fence coming up and realised then, without doubt, that something was definitely not right. I remember I stuffed my brief case even further under the seat and tightened my belt, waiting for the crunch. Then it came; nose wheel first. This bounced the nose back into the air, following which the main gears hit. Down came just about every ceiling panel in the compartment, and the screams from the back end were something to experience.. .. .We stopped, eventually, and taxied in. Perth, at that time, had old style air-stairs and you walked to the terminal. As I came down the stairs the couple in front of me were having a minor row. Turns out she wanted to go straight to the terminal. He, a US airline pilot, wanted to wait at the bottom of the stairs to meet the crew and find out where these "Limey bastards learnt to fly".. .. .Never did find the answer to that one but, years later, I'm still genuinely curious to know how a 747 could be set up so badly for an approach (stabilised? - never!) and still mange to hit the runway. Anyone?. . . . <small>[ 10 March 2002, 11:46: Message edited by: forget ]</small>
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 17:16
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Eastern European, sorry I sounded so ratty last night. I hadn't been able to sleep - my knee was causing problems and had decided to go somewhere cold to see if that would help. It is cold at the top of this house where the computer lurks. I had already downloaded part of it when it refused to send anymore so tried again only to get that "Access denied" message at 99% downloaded. Grrr. By this time my knee was in an even worse state and I was feeling frustrated to say the least. I get fed up with Freeserve from time to time but can't really afford anything better but there are times when the download is really very fast, last night just wasn't one of those occasions so please accept my apologies for being ratty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="redface.gif" />
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 18:00
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Wombat. .. .If you want to solve the download problem try downloading Download Accelerator here <a href="http://www.speedbit.com" target="_blank">www.speedbit.com</a> it won't stop the download problem but it does allow it to resume from where it stopped and its freeee.
 
Old 10th Mar 2002, 18:11
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Frog's right, works a dream, got it months ago.. .. .The download here on broadband took about 10-12 secs. at most and autolaunched - never saw an indication of size - probably too quick. Broadband is worth it, if its around.. .. .For Kai Tak with such a crosswind from behind the building & sheds, that looked just about normal for somebody who only came in here once or twice a month. What I havn't yet figured out is - why do you think its Monday - Looks more like Thursday to me.. .. .Nice to see the old CX tail in the background.
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 20:41
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Looks to me that the cockpit was nicely lined up with the centerline, but the main wheels can be rather far behind.. .. .And if it's an autoland, most likely the localiser antenna's at the nose.
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Old 10th Mar 2002, 21:42
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Well, as for nose down approach on the B-747: Ya are way to fast...!. .. .They may have tried desperately to lose altitude, perhaps 40 knots to fast or so.. .(Just a guess). .. .On the classic ya are not supposed to use speed brakes and flaps at the same time, it sets up a vibration in the tail.. .Therefore the descent have to be planned a little more careful than in a new craft, say the B-767.. .. .(Having flown DC-8s with no speed brakes at all, descent planning was never a problem going on to the B-747. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> ). .. .In my 13 years on the classic I have certainly "botched" a few landings, but don't think I have ever hit nose wheel first. . .Meh think ya really have to plan for it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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