How do you fly your non-precision approaches?
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Canada
This is how it should be done...
On aircraft with gadgits like Vnav(Boeing) or final app(airbus) the best way is to utilize those systems and fly a constant descent path to MDA (or just above it) and either land with visual reference or do a go around. On aircraft with lesser systems the so called dive and drive method is the best as it is to difficult to manage all the variables of a constant descent path.
As for circle to land ops they should never be attempted in actual minimum weather conditions as you would be just asking for trouble. Circle to land approaches should only be attempted when weather conditions are well above charted minimums. If the weather does not allow this then go somewhere else and let the company suck it up. They have to accept that sometimes it happens.
crazy.
On aircraft with gadgits like Vnav(Boeing) or final app(airbus) the best way is to utilize those systems and fly a constant descent path to MDA (or just above it) and either land with visual reference or do a go around. On aircraft with lesser systems the so called dive and drive method is the best as it is to difficult to manage all the variables of a constant descent path.
As for circle to land ops they should never be attempted in actual minimum weather conditions as you would be just asking for trouble. Circle to land approaches should only be attempted when weather conditions are well above charted minimums. If the weather does not allow this then go somewhere else and let the company suck it up. They have to accept that sometimes it happens.
crazy.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
Guess what.
Some years ago, the new applicant for a type rating (ie; Captain, FAA) had to be able to demonstrate a circle to land from 600/2 miles (600 feet, 3200 metres for our European friends)....and he still does.
Can't do same now, time to find another job.
Having said this, a few aircarriers have adopted 1000/3 miles as the minimum circling minima, for heavy jets. Certainly nothing wrong with this.
Circling is a very demanding maneuver...and it showes up as such on nearly every sim check. And no wonder, it demands hand flying the aeroplane....something our European friends are (apparently) not all that familiar with...
Why are we not surprised
Some years ago, the new applicant for a type rating (ie; Captain, FAA) had to be able to demonstrate a circle to land from 600/2 miles (600 feet, 3200 metres for our European friends)....and he still does.
Can't do same now, time to find another job.
Having said this, a few aircarriers have adopted 1000/3 miles as the minimum circling minima, for heavy jets. Certainly nothing wrong with this.
Circling is a very demanding maneuver...and it showes up as such on nearly every sim check. And no wonder, it demands hand flying the aeroplane....something our European friends are (apparently) not all that familiar with...
Why are we not surprised
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Its not that a circle to land is beyond the skill of 99.9% of pilots, its the fact that risks go way up when compared to precision or even straight in npa's. In this day and age there is no need to circle with things like gps and the like. Sure sometimes when terrain is a factor (a mountain on one end of the runway) we have no choice but the weather minimums should be higher so when one is forced to fly the approach the risks are kept close to that of doing a straight in approach and landing. It is not a matter of skill, but a matter of keeping things as safe as we possibly can.
crazy.
crazy.
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: australia
NORMAL DME ARRIVAL PNF/PF DUTIES
1. PNF “FAF xxxx FT, ALTIMETERS AND INSTRUMENTS CROSS CHECKED”
2. PNF “1000” (AFE)
3. PNF “500” (AFE)
4. PNF “APPROACHING MINIMUMS” (100 FT ABOVE MDA)
5. PNF “MINIMUMS – APPROACH/STROBE/CENTRELINE LIGHTS RWY” OR “NO RUNWAY”
6. PF “LANDING”
7. PF “GO-AROUND FLAP 15”
8. PNF “POSITIVE RATE”
9. PF “GEAR UP, CHECK THRUST”
10. PNF “THRUST SET”
11. AT 8 DME PNF “8 MILES 2940” PF “CHECKED” PNF “NEXT 7 MILES, 2610”
NOTE:
COMMENCING THE APPROACH, SET THE MCP ALTITUDE TO THE LIMITING STEP AS DETERMINED BY THE PLANNED PROFILE, OR TO THE MDA IF NO ALTITUDE CONSTRAINT EXISTS
CLEAN CONFIG 220 KNOTS
AT IAF, FLAP 1 190 KNOTS
APPROACHING FAF (2 MILES) GEAR DOWN, FLAP 15 150 KNOTS (START SWITCHES ON, MASTER RECALL, SPEED BRAKE – ARMED AND AUTO BRAKE SELECTOR) – PNF
LANDING FLAP AS PER CIRCLING OR STRAIGHT IN APPROACH
SELECT MCP TO VDA/MDA EG.. MDA 890 – (900) + 50 FUDGE = 1000’ ON THE MCP
OR SELECT MCP TO MDA EG.. MDA 890 – (900)
300 FEET ABOVE THE MINIMA, SELECT MISSED APPROACH ALTITUDE ON MCP, IF NOT CIRCLING
1. PNF “FAF xxxx FT, ALTIMETERS AND INSTRUMENTS CROSS CHECKED”
2. PNF “1000” (AFE)
3. PNF “500” (AFE)
4. PNF “APPROACHING MINIMUMS” (100 FT ABOVE MDA)
5. PNF “MINIMUMS – APPROACH/STROBE/CENTRELINE LIGHTS RWY” OR “NO RUNWAY”
6. PF “LANDING”
7. PF “GO-AROUND FLAP 15”
8. PNF “POSITIVE RATE”
9. PF “GEAR UP, CHECK THRUST”
10. PNF “THRUST SET”
11. AT 8 DME PNF “8 MILES 2940” PF “CHECKED” PNF “NEXT 7 MILES, 2610”
NOTE:
COMMENCING THE APPROACH, SET THE MCP ALTITUDE TO THE LIMITING STEP AS DETERMINED BY THE PLANNED PROFILE, OR TO THE MDA IF NO ALTITUDE CONSTRAINT EXISTS
CLEAN CONFIG 220 KNOTS
AT IAF, FLAP 1 190 KNOTS
APPROACHING FAF (2 MILES) GEAR DOWN, FLAP 15 150 KNOTS (START SWITCHES ON, MASTER RECALL, SPEED BRAKE – ARMED AND AUTO BRAKE SELECTOR) – PNF
LANDING FLAP AS PER CIRCLING OR STRAIGHT IN APPROACH
SELECT MCP TO VDA/MDA EG.. MDA 890 – (900) + 50 FUDGE = 1000’ ON THE MCP
OR SELECT MCP TO MDA EG.. MDA 890 – (900)
300 FEET ABOVE THE MINIMA, SELECT MISSED APPROACH ALTITUDE ON MCP, IF NOT CIRCLING
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
Many airlines have decided that, due to the fact that circling approaches are more difficult for heavy wide-body jet aircraft, to discontinue same in the interests of safety.
In addition, a variation of the continuous descent profile for non-precision approaches has been incorporated...ie: a continuous descent profile is established in order to clear all intermediate step-down altitude restrictions.
Upon reaching the final step-down fix, descent is continued to MDA at 800ft/min so that the crew has the maximum time available in order to have in view the airfield/runway environment, to enable a reasonable descent to the selected runway, positively without excessive descent rates.
IMO, a reasonable alternative to dive & drive, and much safer.
Accurate flying is needed for any required circling maneuvers, and would suggest that, if crew are more comfortable using the autopilot for the initial approach, then absolutely...should be done.
However, for maneuvering for landing, manual flying skills are positively required, and if you have not kept up to speed in same...divert to a more suitable airfield.
Circling can be one of the most demanding maneuvers required of any line pilot, and training in such (IMO) is absolutely essential to avoid accidents.
Either that, or avoid circling altogether.
If this is the case, the respective airlines operations specifications will reflect same.
In addition, a variation of the continuous descent profile for non-precision approaches has been incorporated...ie: a continuous descent profile is established in order to clear all intermediate step-down altitude restrictions.
Upon reaching the final step-down fix, descent is continued to MDA at 800ft/min so that the crew has the maximum time available in order to have in view the airfield/runway environment, to enable a reasonable descent to the selected runway, positively without excessive descent rates.
IMO, a reasonable alternative to dive & drive, and much safer.
Accurate flying is needed for any required circling maneuvers, and would suggest that, if crew are more comfortable using the autopilot for the initial approach, then absolutely...should be done.
However, for maneuvering for landing, manual flying skills are positively required, and if you have not kept up to speed in same...divert to a more suitable airfield.
Circling can be one of the most demanding maneuvers required of any line pilot, and training in such (IMO) is absolutely essential to avoid accidents.
Either that, or avoid circling altogether.
If this is the case, the respective airlines operations specifications will reflect same.
