Best Airline to work for
 

In this current crazy world, airlines are suffering all sorts of setbacks. No matter which counrty you live in or which national carrier you fly for, they all have forseen setbacks or predicted gloom. Do you really fly for one of the best airlines in the world, who is it, why is that, whats the truth behind it?

We all hear about the rumours in the press and flight , what's it like from the floor?

:mad:

By far Air Atlanta.
Pilots work as they wish, most times, salary is not the best, but
you can survive, Ground engineering is good.
CAA/FAA license accepted.
But Buyer Beware!
Contract with ACE owned by Air Atlanta the only way to go!
Outside crew leasing agents as Direct Personel have many problems.
Majority of Pilots wish to transfer to ACE contracts, myself also.
Direct does not honor there contract an will Lie to you as to what it contains.
Constantly blaming Air Atlanta as why you cannot be paid as your contract dictates.
Air Atlanta has few problems most lie with Pay/direct Personel.

Hope this thread gets some good replies. I would also very much like to know which the good airlines are.

BA Citiexpress seems OK if you are at a base not closing down and so being moved to the other end of the country. Good if you are at a base you like, enjoy relatively good work schedules (5/2 and 6/3), few night stops and little night flying. Not so good if you want to earn wads of cash and spend most of your time living it up in exotic places on long stopovers.

Oh yes and a high tolerence to total lack of management helps!

Direct/contract no pay
 

Your thread GO DIRECT caught our attention.
Stay away unless you have Irish lawyer.
Air Atlanta compared to any major is the best!

Go to any crew leasing agent Wasnic, Park IASCO, Problems between Airline and Contactee, any loses are absorbed by the leasing agent, not so with Direct

It would appear that illiteracy or alcoholism are tolerated by Air Atlanta. Does that help?

To answer the original question. As with a few folks here, I have only second-hand experience of most companies, but from listening to the rumours and chit-chat, in the UK we hear very few complaints from the staff of Monarch or Thomas Cook.

Air Atlanta....jez you must be joking...from all accounts given by my mates down the pub.They just despair at the strong silent Icelandic (Non) management style in place,or should I say,at a distance(some industrial units outside KEF),and from the inability to control professional malpractice in South America,to the failure to pay the agreed allowances in the UK.They were all totally p....d off with the whole scene.If it weren't for the fear of My travel going t..s up this winter..most would leave.The promised UK contract,they say,is C....P, with CDRS pay less than £65K.
No,from what I hear AAI or Uk is best given a wide birth

Pub User,

apart from those of us who were at the bottom of the jmc (Thomas Cook) seniority list after 9/11 who were handed redundancy notice...........................and the Chief Pilot and Boeing Fleet Manager who have apparently left..........................

I consider myself to be with a much better employer in Britannia. Package is excellent, including one of the best final salary pension schemes on the market (Thomas Cook's is closed), rostering is fantastic with virtually no changes (unlike Thomas Cook), route structure has a mix of short and longhaul with 757 and 767s to fly (In Thomas Cook you can only do longhaul on the Airbus A330), a very varied flying program with bidding for some great extras (such as Corsair routes this summer to many of the former French colonies), management/pilot relations are good (through strong partnership where the management listen to Balpa) and incentives such as flexible working have been adopted by the company which saves millions in sub charter costs and puts a proportion into pilots pockets whilst providing the roster stability that all charter crews desire, excellent training that is second to none and a great bunch of fellow pilots who have very little to moan about...........................oh and laptops for all pilots with manuals, performance, rosters and much more (including your own workspace and internet connection.)

Can't compare with Monarch, but true, you don't hear too many bad things about them. The other charterers are definately playing catch up though, jmc pilots (as was) were always using Britannia as the benchmark for what they could negotiate out of management.

DHL were also a reasonable employer although night freight is night freight and you can't get away from that. They looked after you, but the pension wasn't up to much and for guys with low hours it was going to take you a month of Sundays to build any hours at 350 per annum. All the sectors were short and some of the crew rooms were grotsville. Whatever floats your boat though...........

As for Air2000, well, they wouldn't be my employer of choice having spent 6 months on loan to them. Relationships with management were particularly poor, rostering was attrocious with as much disruption that was humanly possible to get and they dumped pilots as soon as they could after 9/11 only to find themselves short at the start of the next summer season, only to offer summer only contracts to those who were laid off. Business yes, but firefighting would have appeared to be a more apt business for them to have been in! Hell, they even started aggressively searching cabin crew back in the crew room and suspending them left right and centre for half drunk bottles of water taken off the a/c, 14p found in the bottom of one girl's handbag (presumably they tried to make out she had nicked this from the bar takings!) and all in all it couldn't have been much worse.

So, there's my views on it.

PP

Pilot Pete,
You've summed up Air2000 well. Unfortunately it's got a lot worse since you moved on. Alarmingly the DFO has been quoted as saying there is nothing wrong with morale in the pilot workforce. Not an employer I could recommend anymore.

Hooters Air! The only complaints I hear is about the pilots getting a sore neck.

I agree with PP and EPR man even though I am sorry to say it. Air2Bob WAS an excellant airline but I think the "management"'s long term aim is to downsize,and what better and cheaper way than to piss people off with inane,condescending,insultive bollocks-speak and treating the dedicated team of professionals that keep the money coming in(i.e. the Line crews),like !!!!!!.

Their policy is working and people are starting to leave. I left in May and I know that there is a lot of unpleasantness still in Air 2Bob with possible industrial strife on the cards( according to the Manchester Evening News) and a couple of management pilots subject to legal action for less than ethical behaviour.
My new employer has made me realise that I wasn't working for an airline when I was with Air2000,I was working for something akin to Shearing's Coach Company.I was proud to work for Air2Bob but I am glad I left and I feel for the excellant,dedicated line and ground support teams I left behind because they truely are lions led by donkeys.

From the reports I hear.. Transavia in Holland are are great airline.

Not Qantas:mad: :(

Although I have a different experience from PP's, I must say there seem to be a good reason for me to agree with him when he votes for Britannia.
Like many BA guys, I too, was placed in a holding pool.
For various reasons (incl. Recruitment freeze, bad luck, 911 etc...), I spent nearly 4 years swimming there.
Well, unlike BA, Britannia has kept me in the pool all these years and still offered me a position when things picked up again.

So in my eyes, that is a sign of a "Best airline to work for", specially when this is added to the benefits mentioned in PP's post.

Agree with posts about Britannia. Sure there have been a few things to moan about, but they do seem to look after the troops and aren't scared to spend money on technology. All Cabin crew now issued with there own PDA's, rosters and crew notices sent directly to them by wireless tech' . I believe some new aircraft on the way in the future...
I've been very happy working here and wouldn't put anyone off applying!

Don't agree with Britannia. They may have improved recently but ask any one of 130 pilots made redundant 10 years ago and you will get short shrift. Things were dire there for quite some time.

Sorry to be repetitive, but another highly content BAL pilot here. Management and the CC have a (reasonably) close relationship, and our terms and conditions have improved hugely over recent years. The best features (apart from the pension) is almost complete roster stability with generous blocks of days off (and Block Windows - you can refuse a roster change more than 2 hrs different from published), the ability to increase earnings with Flexible Working (days off working - NOT compulsory), terrific holiday concessions etc etc - hope management don't read this, they may think we are content!
I don't recall any compulsory redunancies 10 years ago, I do recall some HUGE payments for early retirements.

Neo,

agreed there was unpleasantness 10 years ago, but surely the topic starter is on about 'best airline to work for now', not what it was 10 years ago? I too have been lead to believe by much more senior colleagues who were around at the time that no compulsory redundancies took place 10 years ago? I understood that early retirement and enhanced voluntary redundancy were offered? Having said that it may well have been similar to what happened at jmc late last year; no compulsory redundancies but plenty of the 'vulnerables' at the bottom of the seniority list feeling pushed into taking the enhanced voluntary before the inevitable...............

PP

The Best Airline to work for now is my current employer as its paying my wages and long may that continue.

Pilot Pete - i wouldn't shout too loudly if i were you as the folk in HAJ might see you've got too many crews per aircraft and if times get tough decide to do a JMC / VS etc

Shearings???????
 

Pontious; I think you are being a little unfair on Shearings old chap, they surely can't be that bad.

Laker was great fun but sadly it died a very sad death. The company that I work for now takes a lot of beating and is probably the best-kept secret in aviation right now.

We intend to keep it that way!

Air Europe was very popular whilst it lasted.

Amen.

Neo - as Pilot pete states, there were no compulsory redundancies at Britannia 10 years ago. In fact, any pilot who left voluntarily received redundancy cash up to 4 times the govt. recommended sum and many left with large cash sums to do other things. I worked for Brit for 23 years and still believe they are the best UK airline to work for - varied short/long haul, well managed with excellent pilot input to management, good salaries and a final salary pension scheme which increases at 5% per annum ( subject to retiring at 60 )

Frankly, I doubt if any airline in UK looks after its crews as well through the bad times ( and there were some of those ) and into the good times. all coupled with excellent training and engineering back-up.

Yes - there have been some pilot/ management disagreements over the years but the company always listened to the pilot group and arrived at mutually acceptable agreements.

Overall, if I had to do it all again, I wouldn't even consider anyone else - not even BA.

Air 2 Bob is run by a military junta. If you're not prepared to wake up at 0400 local and do 12 hours work two days running, followed by a long night flight, they're not interested in you.
Too many "Yes" men in management, thinking, they're important, and making decisions, reality is, they are all puppets with no say at all,zero,zip, the first choice board pull their strings.
Credentials for management are "ex forces", we all know how efficient (or effluent) they are at managing the countries taxes !!!
Could you get a worse team if you tried, who knows.
Strange how the line pilot changes, when enticed by bonuses, on promotion to a management "muppet", with no training for the new role.
Glad I work for the newspapers!!!!!

:( :confused:

Definately NOT American---
 

Pilot Pete, Willoman -

I've no idea what Britannia is like to work for now. When I joined it was great, but 5 years later - whammo.

Maybe there were no "compulsory" redundancies in the end. However, the way it was handled left me with very bitter memories. I found out on a chance call to crewing; on asking about the redundancies that were then only a rumour, I was told by some YTS trainee in crewing "Oh yeah, we're making 160 pilots redundant". This was about one third of the pilot force at the time.

On telephoning the Chief Pilot, it rapidly became apparent that they had sent out a glossy shaft-your-employee package that had not reached me. Needless to say the conversation was heated and one-sided.

Yes we received a good redundancy package, but at the time it was very apparent that those affected would not have long-term jobs at Britannia: That makes it pretty compulsory in my book.

By comparison my current employer has treated me far, far better. After the 5 years by which time Britannia made me redundant, my current employer had given me command. I know which gets my vote.

And it isn't Britannia.

Having been in the same position as Neo, I must agree entirely with all he says- Brits was good until Burnell took over, then it all went downhill. I also got voluntary redundancy, although the ******s attempted to cheat me out of a sizeable portion of it which I did eventually get paid after lots of shouting!
It was a very unhappy outfit for years after that, lots of compulsory postings etc, but is getting better now. However it must be said that any airline that gets 160 volunteers to leave at a time when BA were not hiring has definitely upset a few of its employees!
My contemporaries in BAL are just getting commands next month after nearly 15 years in th RHS ( congrats to all BTW ) whereas I got mine after 5 yrs at the spotty M, and I stayed based where I wanted to be throughout. It was a difficult decision to leave BAL but with hindsight I'm very glad I did.
As to which company is the best now, that is hard to say unless you have a particularly reliable crystal ball! The best thing you can do is ask people who work there already, preferably over a few beers. Opinions seem to start out rosy but you'll probably get more balanced views after pint 3 or 4!
There will always be things you'd like better, or just different, the most important consideration is if you can put up with the aspects you don't like, you'll be OK in the long run.

Can I throw the name of GB Airways into the ring? They are pretty faultless in most respects. They have never made a pilot redundant, they pay quite well and there is excellent roster stability. The training is excellent with no 'chopping' mentality. They deliberately recruit from the widest range of backgrounds (ie cadets, jet guys from other outfits, turboprop FOs and skippers, civil and military helicopters, fast jet and multi engine military). The senior management are all civvies through and through so there is no 'military mafia' like many other airlines. (I am ex-military myself by the way so please do not take offence all you ex-QFIs, QWIs etc).

There is virtually no flying through the night and there are a maximum of about 2 night stops per month. They operate as BA under a franchise arrangement and follow BA SOPs but fly to lots of nice places in the Med and thereabouts. Aircraft are nearly all brand new A320/321 types (still a couple of 737s left but they go soon). Virtually everone you fly with is a good bloke/girl and they are very professional the way they run the operation.

There is one negative feature, however, and that is the promotion prospects. They had a massive expansion plan to go up to 19 Airbuses and that has all but died or reasons that are not entirely clear. Their are owned by a Gibraltarian family, and have been for several generations. The family are traditionally very cautious and any hint of risk makes them stop dead in their tracks. It is a hard philosophy to argue with because they have consistently done well when others have not. They are stuck at 13 aircraft for the foreseeable future, and that means that many of the FOs who thought they would get quick commands will wait many years if they hang around. There will be 2 command courses in the next 18 months which is not much for a company of about 155 pilots.

Other than that they are excellent employers and very hard to fault.

You chaps are a bit parochial

If you work for Iranair, after 10 years they GIVE you a very nice house in a very nice part of Tehran. That's a pretty good deal.

You do, however, have to be an Iranian national and I must say that Tehran is still a very nice city to live in if you believe in leading a quiet life.

My list (but I haven't actually worked for all of them!), starting with the best and working down:

Britannia
Monarch
GB
BA
My Travel
Thomas Cook
Virgin
Excel
Channex
A2000
EAC
British Midland
Ryanair
Easyjet

The best airline to work for
 

You guys seem to be a little restricted when discussing who is the best airline to work for, but then maybe I should shut up as I am retired.

Wideroe's in Norway is a valid contender. Pay, pension, work schedule, free travel to and from work, life insurance, shopping agreements galore, loss of license, medical covered, free uniform, travel accessories, crew bag, winter clothing, contractual arrangements ok, collective agreement....and there's more.

No wonder so few quits.

And naturally, even they have to downsize due to both 9/11, SARS and the general state of the trade.

I loved it, I miss it and I am gratefull.

Emirates!

Free house...
8 weeks of profit sharing this year....
3-4 years to command....
71 new shiny aircraft coming....

Ah! I almost forgot...NO INCOME TAX

Beat that!

Air Contractors.

They got my vote for the best stopovers and the best bunch of guys you're ever likely to meet.

The time I spent there was like one long European holiday.

10 out of 10.

Coop & Bear

Vertex.
You're absolutely right however I don't blame the various Pilot managers as much as I blame the Last Choice board of directors. If any of the Pilot managers even dared to rebell or stand up for the basic rights of the workforce then they were shown the door only to be replaced by some other "I want to fly as little as possible, I want every weekend off, I want a company car, I want a big desk and feel very important..." wannaebee. Unfortunately this is what happens when you have an uncompromising bunch of t***s barking orders to a bunch of "I'm alright Jack!'s" who do nothing to support the most dedicated team of pro's that have ever held licences.

I must ask some of our regular viewers from that last bastion of decency and fair play,yes the good old air2000 Training Squadron,sorry,Wing,sorry,department.
Do pilot's who have flown fast-jets upside down through The Lakes or Wales MTA REALLY make better pilots?

Perseus.
Yes,I suppose the Shearings remark was a bit harsh on the "Kings of the Road", how about"On the Buses"? I think we'd agree on who Blakey would be,wouldn't you? How are tricks,Persy?

And yes,Emirates is the benchmark. Ah, well, off to the beach for a dip and a read before tomorrows Sim detail. If anyone is considering Air2 Bob,here are some tips.
DONT expect to be treated with respect.
DONT expect to continue having a social life unless you're a manager.
DONT expect any more than 1 weekend off in 5.
DONT expect a command unless you intend to stay about 8 years
DONT expect roster stability from May to October

DO expect to be screwed around
DO expect to have to work days off
DO expect to get a good type on your licence but only fly it for 6 months before being laid-off
DO expect to be treated like a child by Empires of Officialdom
DO expect a lot of turbulent times ahead due to various court actions against management individuals
DO expect to be working with a fantastic team on the line

Grab the type rating with both hands but use your time with them as a stepping stone for a career NOT a Summer-only job.
Good Luck.

P.S. I CAN recommend Titan Airways at Stansted. They were the Mutts Nutts to work for.GW really knew how to inspire his workforce, he treated them with respect,decently and rewarded them well,I was sorry to leave them.
Oh and Emirates of course!!!

Pontious

I think you'll find the boys who flew "fast-jets through The Lakes or Wales MTA" tend to gravitate towards such places as Virgin, BA or Cathay. The ex-mil folks on the charters tend to be Hercules or helicopter pilots.

Pub User

Did you ever work for Air2Bob?

Air UK Ltd

The good old days in Edinburgh and Norwich. NWI AMS NWI on a Saturday morning, back by 1025 with a case or 2 of Grolsch and time to get to the Pub before heading down to Carrow Road!

A great time and some fantastic crew in the cabin and on the flight deck.

Part of uniform issue were ear defenders becuase of the noise in the galley of the F27! Oh and thermal socks recommended for the winter.

Go off on a round the houses trip for 4/5 days and you could get your allowances up front!

Treated well and respected as were all the crew.

I believe it wasn't quite the case when they became Klm Uk....

Page 3 and no mention of Lundun Airways !

Shame that

Sir George Cayley

The air is a navigable ocean that laps at everyones door

EMIRATES
 

........nobody mentioned Emirates as the best employer :suspect:

I think Pontious was trying to status

halas

Hafta be Southwest airlines, the most profitable, safest, emulated and secure airline in da world!