Best Airline to work for
Thread Starter
I thought I wouldn't order a Personal Title to help offset the many thousands of pounds a month it costs to run PPRuNe. Nah... I'll just sit here and moan about it.
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: In-front of the keyboard
Best Airline to work for
In this current crazy world, airlines are suffering all sorts of setbacks. No matter which counrty you live in or which national carrier you fly for, they all have forseen setbacks or predicted gloom. Do you really fly for one of the best airlines in the world, who is it, why is that, whats the truth behind it?
We all hear about the rumours in the press and flight , what's it like from the floor?
We all hear about the rumours in the press and flight , what's it like from the floor?
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 84
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From: USA
By far Air Atlanta.
Pilots work as they wish, most times, salary is not the best, but
you can survive, Ground engineering is good.
CAA/FAA license accepted.
But Buyer Beware!
Contract with ACE owned by Air Atlanta the only way to go!
Outside crew leasing agents as Direct Personel have many problems.
Majority of Pilots wish to transfer to ACE contracts, myself also.
Direct does not honor there contract an will Lie to you as to what it contains.
Constantly blaming Air Atlanta as why you cannot be paid as your contract dictates.
Air Atlanta has few problems most lie with Pay/direct Personel.
Pilots work as they wish, most times, salary is not the best, but
you can survive, Ground engineering is good.
CAA/FAA license accepted.
But Buyer Beware!
Contract with ACE owned by Air Atlanta the only way to go!
Outside crew leasing agents as Direct Personel have many problems.
Majority of Pilots wish to transfer to ACE contracts, myself also.
Direct does not honor there contract an will Lie to you as to what it contains.
Constantly blaming Air Atlanta as why you cannot be paid as your contract dictates.
Air Atlanta has few problems most lie with Pay/direct Personel.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 119
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From: UK
Hope this thread gets some good replies. I would also very much like to know which the good airlines are.
BA Citiexpress seems OK if you are at a base not closing down and so being moved to the other end of the country. Good if you are at a base you like, enjoy relatively good work schedules (5/2 and 6/3), few night stops and little night flying. Not so good if you want to earn wads of cash and spend most of your time living it up in exotic places on long stopovers.
Oh yes and a high tolerence to total lack of management helps!
BA Citiexpress seems OK if you are at a base not closing down and so being moved to the other end of the country. Good if you are at a base you like, enjoy relatively good work schedules (5/2 and 6/3), few night stops and little night flying. Not so good if you want to earn wads of cash and spend most of your time living it up in exotic places on long stopovers.
Oh yes and a high tolerence to total lack of management helps!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 84
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From: USA
Direct/contract no pay
Your thread GO DIRECT caught our attention.
Stay away unless you have Irish lawyer.
Air Atlanta compared to any major is the best!
Go to any crew leasing agent Wasnic, Park IASCO, Problems between Airline and Contactee, any loses are absorbed by the leasing agent, not so with Direct
Stay away unless you have Irish lawyer.
Air Atlanta compared to any major is the best!
Go to any crew leasing agent Wasnic, Park IASCO, Problems between Airline and Contactee, any loses are absorbed by the leasing agent, not so with Direct
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 20th June 2003 at 17:45.
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Grobelling through the murk to the sunshine above.
It would appear that illiteracy or alcoholism are tolerated by Air Atlanta. Does that help?
To answer the original question. As with a few folks here, I have only second-hand experience of most companies, but from listening to the rumours and chit-chat, in the UK we hear very few complaints from the staff of Monarch or Thomas Cook.
To answer the original question. As with a few folks here, I have only second-hand experience of most companies, but from listening to the rumours and chit-chat, in the UK we hear very few complaints from the staff of Monarch or Thomas Cook.
Last edited by Pub User; 20th June 2003 at 13:48.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 127
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From: SE England
Air Atlanta....jez you must be joking...from all accounts given by my mates down the pub.They just despair at the strong silent Icelandic (Non) management style in place,or should I say,at a distance(some industrial units outside KEF),and from the inability to control professional malpractice in South America,to the failure to pay the agreed allowances in the UK.They were all totally p....d off with the whole scene.If it weren't for the fear of My travel going t..s up this winter..most would leave.The promised UK contract,they say,is C....P, with CDRS pay less than £65K.
No,from what I hear AAI or Uk is best given a wide birth
No,from what I hear AAI or Uk is best given a wide birth
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,695
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From: Egcc
Pub User,
apart from those of us who were at the bottom of the jmc (Thomas Cook) seniority list after 9/11 who were handed redundancy notice...........................and the Chief Pilot and Boeing Fleet Manager who have apparently left..........................
I consider myself to be with a much better employer in Britannia. Package is excellent, including one of the best final salary pension schemes on the market (Thomas Cook's is closed), rostering is fantastic with virtually no changes (unlike Thomas Cook), route structure has a mix of short and longhaul with 757 and 767s to fly (In Thomas Cook you can only do longhaul on the Airbus A330), a very varied flying program with bidding for some great extras (such as Corsair routes this summer to many of the former French colonies), management/pilot relations are good (through strong partnership where the management listen to Balpa) and incentives such as flexible working have been adopted by the company which saves millions in sub charter costs and puts a proportion into pilots pockets whilst providing the roster stability that all charter crews desire, excellent training that is second to none and a great bunch of fellow pilots who have very little to moan about...........................oh and laptops for all pilots with manuals, performance, rosters and much more (including your own workspace and internet connection.)
Can't compare with Monarch, but true, you don't hear too many bad things about them. The other charterers are definately playing catch up though, jmc pilots (as was) were always using Britannia as the benchmark for what they could negotiate out of management.
DHL were also a reasonable employer although night freight is night freight and you can't get away from that. They looked after you, but the pension wasn't up to much and for guys with low hours it was going to take you a month of Sundays to build any hours at 350 per annum. All the sectors were short and some of the crew rooms were grotsville. Whatever floats your boat though...........
As for Air2000, well, they wouldn't be my employer of choice having spent 6 months on loan to them. Relationships with management were particularly poor, rostering was attrocious with as much disruption that was humanly possible to get and they dumped pilots as soon as they could after 9/11 only to find themselves short at the start of the next summer season, only to offer summer only contracts to those who were laid off. Business yes, but firefighting would have appeared to be a more apt business for them to have been in! Hell, they even started aggressively searching cabin crew back in the crew room and suspending them left right and centre for half drunk bottles of water taken off the a/c, 14p found in the bottom of one girl's handbag (presumably they tried to make out she had nicked this from the bar takings!) and all in all it couldn't have been much worse.
So, there's my views on it.
PP
apart from those of us who were at the bottom of the jmc (Thomas Cook) seniority list after 9/11 who were handed redundancy notice...........................and the Chief Pilot and Boeing Fleet Manager who have apparently left..........................
I consider myself to be with a much better employer in Britannia. Package is excellent, including one of the best final salary pension schemes on the market (Thomas Cook's is closed), rostering is fantastic with virtually no changes (unlike Thomas Cook), route structure has a mix of short and longhaul with 757 and 767s to fly (In Thomas Cook you can only do longhaul on the Airbus A330), a very varied flying program with bidding for some great extras (such as Corsair routes this summer to many of the former French colonies), management/pilot relations are good (through strong partnership where the management listen to Balpa) and incentives such as flexible working have been adopted by the company which saves millions in sub charter costs and puts a proportion into pilots pockets whilst providing the roster stability that all charter crews desire, excellent training that is second to none and a great bunch of fellow pilots who have very little to moan about...........................oh and laptops for all pilots with manuals, performance, rosters and much more (including your own workspace and internet connection.)
Can't compare with Monarch, but true, you don't hear too many bad things about them. The other charterers are definately playing catch up though, jmc pilots (as was) were always using Britannia as the benchmark for what they could negotiate out of management.
DHL were also a reasonable employer although night freight is night freight and you can't get away from that. They looked after you, but the pension wasn't up to much and for guys with low hours it was going to take you a month of Sundays to build any hours at 350 per annum. All the sectors were short and some of the crew rooms were grotsville. Whatever floats your boat though...........
As for Air2000, well, they wouldn't be my employer of choice having spent 6 months on loan to them. Relationships with management were particularly poor, rostering was attrocious with as much disruption that was humanly possible to get and they dumped pilots as soon as they could after 9/11 only to find themselves short at the start of the next summer season, only to offer summer only contracts to those who were laid off. Business yes, but firefighting would have appeared to be a more apt business for them to have been in! Hell, they even started aggressively searching cabin crew back in the crew room and suspending them left right and centre for half drunk bottles of water taken off the a/c, 14p found in the bottom of one girl's handbag (presumably they tried to make out she had nicked this from the bar takings!) and all in all it couldn't have been much worse.
So, there's my views on it.
PP
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 238
Likes: 1
From: UK
Pilot Pete,
You've summed up Air2000 well. Unfortunately it's got a lot worse since you moved on. Alarmingly the DFO has been quoted as saying there is nothing wrong with morale in the pilot workforce. Not an employer I could recommend anymore.
You've summed up Air2000 well. Unfortunately it's got a lot worse since you moved on. Alarmingly the DFO has been quoted as saying there is nothing wrong with morale in the pilot workforce. Not an employer I could recommend anymore.
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
From: Manchester.UK
I agree with PP and EPR man even though I am sorry to say it. Air2Bob WAS an excellant airline but I think the "management"'s long term aim is to downsize,and what better and cheaper way than to piss people off with inane,condescending,insultive bollocks-speak and treating the dedicated team of professionals that keep the money coming in(i.e. the Line crews),like !!!!!!.
Their policy is working and people are starting to leave. I left in May and I know that there is a lot of unpleasantness still in Air 2Bob with possible industrial strife on the cards( according to the Manchester Evening News) and a couple of management pilots subject to legal action for less than ethical behaviour.
My new employer has made me realise that I wasn't working for an airline when I was with Air2000,I was working for something akin to Shearing's Coach Company.I was proud to work for Air2Bob but I am glad I left and I feel for the excellant,dedicated line and ground support teams I left behind because they truely are lions led by donkeys.
Their policy is working and people are starting to leave. I left in May and I know that there is a lot of unpleasantness still in Air 2Bob with possible industrial strife on the cards( according to the Manchester Evening News) and a couple of management pilots subject to legal action for less than ethical behaviour.
My new employer has made me realise that I wasn't working for an airline when I was with Air2000,I was working for something akin to Shearing's Coach Company.I was proud to work for Air2Bob but I am glad I left and I feel for the excellant,dedicated line and ground support teams I left behind because they truely are lions led by donkeys.
Guest
Joined: Apr 2003
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Although I have a different experience from PP's, I must say there seem to be a good reason for me to agree with him when he votes for Britannia.
Like many BA guys, I too, was placed in a holding pool.
For various reasons (incl. Recruitment freeze, bad luck, 911 etc...), I spent nearly 4 years swimming there.
Well, unlike BA, Britannia has kept me in the pool all these years and still offered me a position when things picked up again.
So in my eyes, that is a sign of a "Best airline to work for", specially when this is added to the benefits mentioned in PP's post.
Like many BA guys, I too, was placed in a holding pool.
For various reasons (incl. Recruitment freeze, bad luck, 911 etc...), I spent nearly 4 years swimming there.
Well, unlike BA, Britannia has kept me in the pool all these years and still offered me a position when things picked up again.
So in my eyes, that is a sign of a "Best airline to work for", specially when this is added to the benefits mentioned in PP's post.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 69
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From: manchester uk
Agree with posts about Britannia. Sure there have been a few things to moan about, but they do seem to look after the troops and aren't scared to spend money on technology. All Cabin crew now issued with there own PDA's, rosters and crew notices sent directly to them by wireless tech' . I believe some new aircraft on the way in the future...
I've been very happy working here and wouldn't put anyone off applying!
I've been very happy working here and wouldn't put anyone off applying!
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 99
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From: UK
Sorry to be repetitive, but another highly content BAL pilot here. Management and the CC have a (reasonably) close relationship, and our terms and conditions have improved hugely over recent years. The best features (apart from the pension) is almost complete roster stability with generous blocks of days off (and Block Windows - you can refuse a roster change more than 2 hrs different from published), the ability to increase earnings with Flexible Working (days off working - NOT compulsory), terrific holiday concessions etc etc - hope management don't read this, they may think we are content!
I don't recall any compulsory redunancies 10 years ago, I do recall some HUGE payments for early retirements.
I don't recall any compulsory redunancies 10 years ago, I do recall some HUGE payments for early retirements.
Last edited by Moondance; 21st June 2003 at 02:00.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 1
From: Egcc
Neo,
agreed there was unpleasantness 10 years ago, but surely the topic starter is on about 'best airline to work for now', not what it was 10 years ago? I too have been lead to believe by much more senior colleagues who were around at the time that no compulsory redundancies took place 10 years ago? I understood that early retirement and enhanced voluntary redundancy were offered? Having said that it may well have been similar to what happened at jmc late last year; no compulsory redundancies but plenty of the 'vulnerables' at the bottom of the seniority list feeling pushed into taking the enhanced voluntary before the inevitable...............
PP
agreed there was unpleasantness 10 years ago, but surely the topic starter is on about 'best airline to work for now', not what it was 10 years ago? I too have been lead to believe by much more senior colleagues who were around at the time that no compulsory redundancies took place 10 years ago? I understood that early retirement and enhanced voluntary redundancy were offered? Having said that it may well have been similar to what happened at jmc late last year; no compulsory redundancies but plenty of the 'vulnerables' at the bottom of the seniority list feeling pushed into taking the enhanced voluntary before the inevitable...............
PP
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,643
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From: UK
The Best Airline to work for now is my current employer as its paying my wages and long may that continue.
Pilot Pete - i wouldn't shout too loudly if i were you as the folk in HAJ might see you've got too many crews per aircraft and if times get tough decide to do a JMC / VS etc
Pilot Pete - i wouldn't shout too loudly if i were you as the folk in HAJ might see you've got too many crews per aircraft and if times get tough decide to do a JMC / VS etc
Shearings???????