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A340 of Iberia skids off runway in Quito
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Looks pretty bad, the plane is quite beaten up, possible write off?
http://www.elperiodico.cat/default.a...seccio_PK=1007 Pictures: http://www.elperiodico.cat/info/gale...&idgaleria=969 Looking at these, both right engines seem to have torn from the wing or at least severely bent. Only one slide deployed, may suggest they only evacuated after a while, so that may explain why nobody was hurt (according to the sources). Looking at the situation, they seem to have been quite lucky to stop where they did. There is quite a drop a few planelengts further on. AN2 Driver. |
They're very lucky they stopped when they did. The fuselage doesn't seem to be damaged or bent at all; the No2 pylon is presumably repairable, so I would be surprised if it's a write-off.
UIO's altitude is about 9,000', hence a significantly higher landing speed - and a greater chance of tyrebursts. |
I am guessing write off. Wing may be bent. IMportant thing is that everyone is OK hopefully.
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The number 1 engine looks at a strange angle too!
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Write off? Write off? Do you chaps know what you are talking about? Please, unless you have some sort of engineering background, no more of this garbage 'armchair expert' guesswork! Nobody wants to hear non-expert opinions here!
Qantas 747 at BKK....repaired. AF 747 Tahiti (?)..... repaired. JAL DC8 ditched into Tokyo Bay...repaired. There is not much wrong with that aeroplane. The fuselage looks unstressed, the undercarriage still appears to be intact. Wing repairs, change flaps & 2 engines, change undercarriage bits, run engines and off she goes! |
Rainboe. is there a reason why you're permanently angry?
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Absolutely - it is fine! Those engines are just swivelled to help steer towards the lake. It is a new AB mod. 747 has had it for years. A quick hose down and off she goes. Built like a brick-built john, those AB s are.:ok:
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Mitty's back. Down Boy!
Rainboe. is there a reason why you're permanently angry? |
He has obviously forgotten the true meaning behind these boards...
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Rainboe,
Of interest, QF 744 at BKK was a write off in insurance terms, QF just paid for repairs to avoid the term hull loss on the books, am sure they they are not alone in doing this. This 340 looks like a cheap fix from the pics, but you never know??? |
Looking at the pictures, how can anyone give a true visual inspection?
There could be any underling stress damage and or twisted frames etc. Wait for the investigation. |
Of interest, QF 744 at BKK was a write off in insurance terms, QF just paid for repairs to avoid the term hull loss on the books, am sure they they are not alone in doing this. Quicker to fix aero than write it off and wait for Mr Boeing to build one.:) |
How many hours did it take to evacuate this aircraft???? The evacuation started in daylight and continued into the night?:eek:
Rainboe is the acting PPRUNE police. Every forum got one. Edit: It seems they never did evacuate. They didn't burn to death, so it worked out OK. I know what I would have done, though. |
Here is another clear picture a lot off damage if you ask me!
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6104979 |
I say it´s a write-off, limited space in Quito to patch this bird up.
More rumors, female pilot (as with SAA incident) and that IB had burst tires on an (initial report of reason for the accident) A346 on 30th of august 2007. |
Nobody wants to hear non-expert opinions here! "The fuselage looks unstressed" - how do you figure that out? Nobody wants to have to read that sort of castigation followed by an uniformed opinion, it's just irritating; and yes I'm an aeronautical engineering expert, at least that what it's says on my PhD...even my former well known employers agreed to a certain extent on that All aeroplanes are repairable and it has little to do with the engineering consensus; it all up the insurers in the end. |
Quote from the Jetphotos.net photographer:
The airplane landed at 17:15 with light rain and wet RWY. According to people who saw the airplane land, the aircraft it skid out of control, and over shot the RWY into the grass area. As it hit the grass one of the main landing gears tore off, the aircraft sank into the grass hitting part of the underground tunnel structure, ripping and blowing up other tires making the plane stop. Then engines 1 and 2 hit the ground causing them to rip off the wing. Certainly a terrible incident, thankfully no fatalities! Airport will be closed for about 1 day. |
I wouldn't be surprised if the LH MLG has collapsed or been torn from the gear rib.
I would say that they will need a full set of gear (~USD 10m) a pair of engines, nacelles and pylons ($50m+ at spares price), and about 2 months in a hangar, 3 months if the gear rib needs to be replaced, as it never has been done on an A346 before. I would think that Iberia would be quite happy to have it written off, lets face it the A346 is not exactly Queen of the Sky, and I have a feeling that they are worth more as a financial write-off than an airframe. |
I'm with Operationsair on this one, none of us are really qualified to say its a write off or not, firstly, all we have to look at is pictures, secondly, I would say that most people who have posted so far are not qualified Aircraft Engineers and thirdly the aircraft is still to be inspected analyzed by said pro's...then I would gather it all comes down to Iberia/the insurance company.
From the pictures, it looks like they are very lucky to have come to a halt where they did though, looks like a nasty drop just ahead of them. Also, perhaps it was a female pilot, but as we don't know all the facts right now I don't see what difference that makes? |
Having seen the photos on airdisaster.com, I would be most surprised if this aircraft flies again.
The LH MLG was torn off, the CLG is buried up to the top of the wheels, and more critically it looks like the LH keel beam has been tortured. That is bonded monolitic carbon so *not terribly repairable* Whether this puppy flies again will hinge on the condition of the wing skins and the spars, and the facilities available in Quito. |
Write-off? Never.
Perhaps Iberia should ask Qantas to fix it, they seem to be able to get write-offs flying again. From the photographs, this aircraft seems to be about as badly damaged as the Qantas B747 at Bangkok a few years ago. |
Originally Posted by rainboe
Originally Posted by Parapunter
Rainboe. is there a reason why you're permanently angry?
tr.v. ex·as·per·at·ed, ex·as·per·at·ing, ex·as·per·ates 1. To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly .......nuff said? Meanwhile chaps - back at the accident? |
A340 Quito
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CChzaDxxSJw Interesting parking procedure...Looks quite tight |
What are they talking about? There will be an engineering team out there today, assessing damage and sorting out an initial shopping list. Odds of getting back in the air- 95%....in 3 months? Engineers themselves are not good judges- look at the way car mechanics make that sucking in sound through the teeth and shake their heads, as if it is terminal....and all you need is your timing belt changed!
Busbert- for an education, you should look up the pictures of the Qantas 747. Worse than this. Ex-as-per-at-ed-To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly! (for the benefit of Moderators with little patience!) |
Rainboe,
Thankyou for your interesting comments. After looking at the pictures and applying my previous experience in such matters, I am of the technical opinion that it is f***ed. 2 engines poss write offs , other 2 engines for shop strip , 2 pylons, 4 gears , fuselage (visible damage) plus unknown damage...... $40M before you even start to think about how you are going to repair it(portable hangers etc) at Quito. Will be written off and sold for salvage (prob worth $10m ++ a good deal for the Airline and the Insurers) Will buy you pint if I'm wrong !!! :ok: |
Okay
Thats it I am bored of the petty squabbling. I am willing to take odds on this 4-1ON for Rainboe will sort out the other odds later. Otherwise for a bit of fun, Mods could we have a poll then we can see if it flies again who has egg on their faces. Also with the poll could we please name who has taken what vote. |
You are having a giraffe are you not? Danny kindly passed this thread to PPP and me so the willy-waving can continue unabated, and also I am afraid we are not licensed for gambling here.
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Duplicated on R&N
Irrelevant As can be seen from other photos, the acft is at quite an angle and on soft ground; I'm no expert on recovery and the various thingies you need to recover a large airliner, but it occurs to me that it will be extremely difficult to move this machine without exacerbating the damage. No doubt Airbus will be assisting and can advise on lift points for aircraft like this. (Another factor could be the fact that the type of lifting gear required may not be available in Quito and the only way you can bring it in is by air ... and the airport is closed - Catch 22?) |
Any mil helos in the area? Any Mil-26? Peru, Venezuela got them.
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The pictures seem to show a lot of real damage, fair to say. It could be possible to repair it if they really want to throw enough money at it (and time) . But it all boils down to money needed and value. A340 has lost the race to 777 by leaps and bounds in the marketplace. And residual values for operable aircraft are quite low. I understand huge discounts are there for the asking on both new and preowned. It may simply not be worth it to repair .
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Latest speculation is that it´ll be cut up, too risky to move it anywhere.
Airport seem to be open again, 200meter less runway, so access is a bit restricted. |
Well I guess they can do a lot to a damaged bird, it's probably depending what the airline and the insurance co's are opting.
see this LH 747, was also looking awfull but still flies. http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/d-abyu/photo.shtml |
On any other main airport the aircraft could be saved and repaired, not in Quito, those who have been there know the airport, no space, no hangars, no cranes. The aircraft as far as I know would not be repaired.
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Curious how many hours they had flown after landing. Fatigue, etc issues
(not that fatigue caused it, but being fresh and evac-ing is different than evac-ing after having flown XXX hours from Europe) |
Hi Rainboe,
if it was me that caused you to become Ex-as-per-at-ed-To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly! I do recall an incident where an A319 went astray during a taxi test at Munich and had an unpleasant encounter with a Dash 8 in the process, resulting in spar damage amongst other bent metal and composite. It took the experts from Airbus and the airline several weeks to decide wether to fix it or to part it out, in the end they did fix it but it took pretty long. Likewise with a brand new 737 which ended up in a hailshower, they called it a write off when it first entered the hangar, and financially it was, but they fixed it. I understood however that other aircraft, which were much less damaged, ended up on the heap. So if I have annoyed anyone, sorry. It was and is my perception however that we are an aviation forum and as such, asking questions along these lines should still be allowed... AN2. |
Lots of factors involved which we can only guess at. Such as sourcing parts which might be nonstandard (BMI A330....? Same thing) or have longish lead times as they are major lumps of aircraft.
The airline and insurers won't like to write it off though, as it causes a ripple throughout the stats which bedevil airlines these days. Such as safety records and hull losses. We have seen worse than this patched up good as new before now. I'm just glad people got off it OK as that's more important than anything.:ok: |
Rainboe, I don't get it. First you say the engineers are going to assess it and figure out what is needed to repair it. Then you say the engineers are bad judges to be doing this sort of thing.
So who is going to decide if it can be repaired, the pilots? You bend it, you fix sort of deal? You might want to note that unlike pilots and car mechanics, engineers meet the standard definitions of a profession. 20driver (And yes I am both a pilot and an engineer, sadly not a car mechanic) |
The engineers will probably say it is repairable, but the beancounters will determine if it's beyond economical repair - that it whether its market value is greater or less than the cost to repair.
The other consideration is - what's it's scrap value? Airbus may want to do engineering evaluation of the wing. The two starboard engines alone may bring enough value to consider turning the hulk over to agricultural interests in Equador. :} |
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