Best Airline to work for
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Neo - as Pilot pete states, there were no compulsory redundancies at Britannia 10 years ago. In fact, any pilot who left voluntarily received redundancy cash up to 4 times the govt. recommended sum and many left with large cash sums to do other things. I worked for Brit for 23 years and still believe they are the best UK airline to work for - varied short/long haul, well managed with excellent pilot input to management, good salaries and a final salary pension scheme which increases at 5% per annum ( subject to retiring at 60 )
Frankly, I doubt if any airline in UK looks after its crews as well through the bad times ( and there were some of those ) and into the good times. all coupled with excellent training and engineering back-up.
Yes - there have been some pilot/ management disagreements over the years but the company always listened to the pilot group and arrived at mutually acceptable agreements.
Overall, if I had to do it all again, I wouldn't even consider anyone else - not even BA.
Frankly, I doubt if any airline in UK looks after its crews as well through the bad times ( and there were some of those ) and into the good times. all coupled with excellent training and engineering back-up.
Yes - there have been some pilot/ management disagreements over the years but the company always listened to the pilot group and arrived at mutually acceptable agreements.
Overall, if I had to do it all again, I wouldn't even consider anyone else - not even BA.
Last edited by willoman; 21st Jun 2003 at 04:09.
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Air 2 Bob is run by a military junta. If you're not prepared to wake up at 0400 local and do 12 hours work two days running, followed by a long night flight, they're not interested in you.
Too many "Yes" men in management, thinking, they're important, and making decisions, reality is, they are all puppets with no say at all,zero,zip, the first choice board pull their strings.
Credentials for management are "ex forces", we all know how efficient (or effluent) they are at managing the countries taxes !!!
Could you get a worse team if you tried, who knows.
Strange how the line pilot changes, when enticed by bonuses, on promotion to a management "muppet", with no training for the new role.
Glad I work for the newspapers!!!!!
Too many "Yes" men in management, thinking, they're important, and making decisions, reality is, they are all puppets with no say at all,zero,zip, the first choice board pull their strings.
Credentials for management are "ex forces", we all know how efficient (or effluent) they are at managing the countries taxes !!!
Could you get a worse team if you tried, who knows.
Strange how the line pilot changes, when enticed by bonuses, on promotion to a management "muppet", with no training for the new role.
Glad I work for the newspapers!!!!!
Definately NOT American---
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Pilot Pete, Willoman -
I've no idea what Britannia is like to work for now. When I joined it was great, but 5 years later - whammo.
Maybe there were no "compulsory" redundancies in the end. However, the way it was handled left me with very bitter memories. I found out on a chance call to crewing; on asking about the redundancies that were then only a rumour, I was told by some YTS trainee in crewing "Oh yeah, we're making 160 pilots redundant". This was about one third of the pilot force at the time.
On telephoning the Chief Pilot, it rapidly became apparent that they had sent out a glossy shaft-your-employee package that had not reached me. Needless to say the conversation was heated and one-sided.
Yes we received a good redundancy package, but at the time it was very apparent that those affected would not have long-term jobs at Britannia: That makes it pretty compulsory in my book.
By comparison my current employer has treated me far, far better. After the 5 years by which time Britannia made me redundant, my current employer had given me command. I know which gets my vote.
And it isn't Britannia.
I've no idea what Britannia is like to work for now. When I joined it was great, but 5 years later - whammo.
Maybe there were no "compulsory" redundancies in the end. However, the way it was handled left me with very bitter memories. I found out on a chance call to crewing; on asking about the redundancies that were then only a rumour, I was told by some YTS trainee in crewing "Oh yeah, we're making 160 pilots redundant". This was about one third of the pilot force at the time.
On telephoning the Chief Pilot, it rapidly became apparent that they had sent out a glossy shaft-your-employee package that had not reached me. Needless to say the conversation was heated and one-sided.
Yes we received a good redundancy package, but at the time it was very apparent that those affected would not have long-term jobs at Britannia: That makes it pretty compulsory in my book.
By comparison my current employer has treated me far, far better. After the 5 years by which time Britannia made me redundant, my current employer had given me command. I know which gets my vote.
And it isn't Britannia.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
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Having been in the same position as Neo, I must agree entirely with all he says- Brits was good until Burnell took over, then it all went downhill. I also got voluntary redundancy, although the ******s attempted to cheat me out of a sizeable portion of it which I did eventually get paid after lots of shouting!
It was a very unhappy outfit for years after that, lots of compulsory postings etc, but is getting better now. However it must be said that any airline that gets 160 volunteers to leave at a time when BA were not hiring has definitely upset a few of its employees!
My contemporaries in BAL are just getting commands next month after nearly 15 years in th RHS ( congrats to all BTW ) whereas I got mine after 5 yrs at the spotty M, and I stayed based where I wanted to be throughout. It was a difficult decision to leave BAL but with hindsight I'm very glad I did.
As to which company is the best now, that is hard to say unless you have a particularly reliable crystal ball! The best thing you can do is ask people who work there already, preferably over a few beers. Opinions seem to start out rosy but you'll probably get more balanced views after pint 3 or 4!
There will always be things you'd like better, or just different, the most important consideration is if you can put up with the aspects you don't like, you'll be OK in the long run.
It was a very unhappy outfit for years after that, lots of compulsory postings etc, but is getting better now. However it must be said that any airline that gets 160 volunteers to leave at a time when BA were not hiring has definitely upset a few of its employees!
My contemporaries in BAL are just getting commands next month after nearly 15 years in th RHS ( congrats to all BTW ) whereas I got mine after 5 yrs at the spotty M, and I stayed based where I wanted to be throughout. It was a difficult decision to leave BAL but with hindsight I'm very glad I did.
As to which company is the best now, that is hard to say unless you have a particularly reliable crystal ball! The best thing you can do is ask people who work there already, preferably over a few beers. Opinions seem to start out rosy but you'll probably get more balanced views after pint 3 or 4!
There will always be things you'd like better, or just different, the most important consideration is if you can put up with the aspects you don't like, you'll be OK in the long run.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
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Can I throw the name of GB Airways into the ring? They are pretty faultless in most respects. They have never made a pilot redundant, they pay quite well and there is excellent roster stability. The training is excellent with no 'chopping' mentality. They deliberately recruit from the widest range of backgrounds (ie cadets, jet guys from other outfits, turboprop FOs and skippers, civil and military helicopters, fast jet and multi engine military). The senior management are all civvies through and through so there is no 'military mafia' like many other airlines. (I am ex-military myself by the way so please do not take offence all you ex-QFIs, QWIs etc).
There is virtually no flying through the night and there are a maximum of about 2 night stops per month. They operate as BA under a franchise arrangement and follow BA SOPs but fly to lots of nice places in the Med and thereabouts. Aircraft are nearly all brand new A320/321 types (still a couple of 737s left but they go soon). Virtually everone you fly with is a good bloke/girl and they are very professional the way they run the operation.
There is one negative feature, however, and that is the promotion prospects. They had a massive expansion plan to go up to 19 Airbuses and that has all but died or reasons that are not entirely clear. Their are owned by a Gibraltarian family, and have been for several generations. The family are traditionally very cautious and any hint of risk makes them stop dead in their tracks. It is a hard philosophy to argue with because they have consistently done well when others have not. They are stuck at 13 aircraft for the foreseeable future, and that means that many of the FOs who thought they would get quick commands will wait many years if they hang around. There will be 2 command courses in the next 18 months which is not much for a company of about 155 pilots.
Other than that they are excellent employers and very hard to fault.
There is virtually no flying through the night and there are a maximum of about 2 night stops per month. They operate as BA under a franchise arrangement and follow BA SOPs but fly to lots of nice places in the Med and thereabouts. Aircraft are nearly all brand new A320/321 types (still a couple of 737s left but they go soon). Virtually everone you fly with is a good bloke/girl and they are very professional the way they run the operation.
There is one negative feature, however, and that is the promotion prospects. They had a massive expansion plan to go up to 19 Airbuses and that has all but died or reasons that are not entirely clear. Their are owned by a Gibraltarian family, and have been for several generations. The family are traditionally very cautious and any hint of risk makes them stop dead in their tracks. It is a hard philosophy to argue with because they have consistently done well when others have not. They are stuck at 13 aircraft for the foreseeable future, and that means that many of the FOs who thought they would get quick commands will wait many years if they hang around. There will be 2 command courses in the next 18 months which is not much for a company of about 155 pilots.
Other than that they are excellent employers and very hard to fault.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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You chaps are a bit parochial
If you work for Iranair, after 10 years they GIVE you a very nice house in a very nice part of Tehran. That's a pretty good deal.
You do, however, have to be an Iranian national and I must say that Tehran is still a very nice city to live in if you believe in leading a quiet life.
If you work for Iranair, after 10 years they GIVE you a very nice house in a very nice part of Tehran. That's a pretty good deal.
You do, however, have to be an Iranian national and I must say that Tehran is still a very nice city to live in if you believe in leading a quiet life.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
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My list (but I haven't actually worked for all of them!), starting with the best and working down:
Britannia
Monarch
GB
BA
My Travel
Thomas Cook
Virgin
Excel
Channex
A2000
EAC
British Midland
Ryanair
Easyjet
Britannia
Monarch
GB
BA
My Travel
Thomas Cook
Virgin
Excel
Channex
A2000
EAC
British Midland
Ryanair
Easyjet
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The best airline to work for
You guys seem to be a little restricted when discussing who is the best airline to work for, but then maybe I should shut up as I am retired.
Wideroe's in Norway is a valid contender. Pay, pension, work schedule, free travel to and from work, life insurance, shopping agreements galore, loss of license, medical covered, free uniform, travel accessories, crew bag, winter clothing, contractual arrangements ok, collective agreement....and there's more.
No wonder so few quits.
And naturally, even they have to downsize due to both 9/11, SARS and the general state of the trade.
I loved it, I miss it and I am gratefull.
Wideroe's in Norway is a valid contender. Pay, pension, work schedule, free travel to and from work, life insurance, shopping agreements galore, loss of license, medical covered, free uniform, travel accessories, crew bag, winter clothing, contractual arrangements ok, collective agreement....and there's more.
No wonder so few quits.
And naturally, even they have to downsize due to both 9/11, SARS and the general state of the trade.
I loved it, I miss it and I am gratefull.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gulf playing Golf
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Emirates!
Free house...
8 weeks of profit sharing this year....
3-4 years to command....
71 new shiny aircraft coming....
Ah! I almost forgot...NO INCOME TAX
Beat that!
Free house...
8 weeks of profit sharing this year....
3-4 years to command....
71 new shiny aircraft coming....
Ah! I almost forgot...NO INCOME TAX
Beat that!
Oops pardon me
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Manchester England
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Air Contractors.
They got my vote for the best stopovers and the best bunch of guys you're ever likely to meet.
The time I spent there was like one long European holiday.
10 out of 10.
Coop & Bear
They got my vote for the best stopovers and the best bunch of guys you're ever likely to meet.
The time I spent there was like one long European holiday.
10 out of 10.
Coop & Bear
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Manchester.UK
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Vertex.
You're absolutely right however I don't blame the various Pilot managers as much as I blame the Last Choice board of directors. If any of the Pilot managers even dared to rebell or stand up for the basic rights of the workforce then they were shown the door only to be replaced by some other "I want to fly as little as possible, I want every weekend off, I want a company car, I want a big desk and feel very important..." wannaebee. Unfortunately this is what happens when you have an uncompromising bunch of t***s barking orders to a bunch of "I'm alright Jack!'s" who do nothing to support the most dedicated team of pro's that have ever held licences.
I must ask some of our regular viewers from that last bastion of decency and fair play,yes the good old air2000 Training Squadron,sorry,Wing,sorry,department.
Do pilot's who have flown fast-jets upside down through The Lakes or Wales MTA REALLY make better pilots?
Perseus.
Yes,I suppose the Shearings remark was a bit harsh on the "Kings of the Road", how about"On the Buses"? I think we'd agree on who Blakey would be,wouldn't you? How are tricks,Persy?
And yes,Emirates is the benchmark. Ah, well, off to the beach for a dip and a read before tomorrows Sim detail. If anyone is considering Air2 Bob,here are some tips.
DONT expect to be treated with respect.
DONT expect to continue having a social life unless you're a manager.
DONT expect any more than 1 weekend off in 5.
DONT expect a command unless you intend to stay about 8 years
DONT expect roster stability from May to October
DO expect to be screwed around
DO expect to have to work days off
DO expect to get a good type on your licence but only fly it for 6 months before being laid-off
DO expect to be treated like a child by Empires of Officialdom
DO expect a lot of turbulent times ahead due to various court actions against management individuals
DO expect to be working with a fantastic team on the line
Grab the type rating with both hands but use your time with them as a stepping stone for a career NOT a Summer-only job.
Good Luck.
P.S. I CAN recommend Titan Airways at Stansted. They were the Mutts Nutts to work for.GW really knew how to inspire his workforce, he treated them with respect,decently and rewarded them well,I was sorry to leave them.
Oh and Emirates of course!!!
You're absolutely right however I don't blame the various Pilot managers as much as I blame the Last Choice board of directors. If any of the Pilot managers even dared to rebell or stand up for the basic rights of the workforce then they were shown the door only to be replaced by some other "I want to fly as little as possible, I want every weekend off, I want a company car, I want a big desk and feel very important..." wannaebee. Unfortunately this is what happens when you have an uncompromising bunch of t***s barking orders to a bunch of "I'm alright Jack!'s" who do nothing to support the most dedicated team of pro's that have ever held licences.
I must ask some of our regular viewers from that last bastion of decency and fair play,yes the good old air2000 Training Squadron,sorry,Wing,sorry,department.
Do pilot's who have flown fast-jets upside down through The Lakes or Wales MTA REALLY make better pilots?
Perseus.
Yes,I suppose the Shearings remark was a bit harsh on the "Kings of the Road", how about"On the Buses"? I think we'd agree on who Blakey would be,wouldn't you? How are tricks,Persy?
And yes,Emirates is the benchmark. Ah, well, off to the beach for a dip and a read before tomorrows Sim detail. If anyone is considering Air2 Bob,here are some tips.
DONT expect to be treated with respect.
DONT expect to continue having a social life unless you're a manager.
DONT expect any more than 1 weekend off in 5.
DONT expect a command unless you intend to stay about 8 years
DONT expect roster stability from May to October
DO expect to be screwed around
DO expect to have to work days off
DO expect to get a good type on your licence but only fly it for 6 months before being laid-off
DO expect to be treated like a child by Empires of Officialdom
DO expect a lot of turbulent times ahead due to various court actions against management individuals
DO expect to be working with a fantastic team on the line
Grab the type rating with both hands but use your time with them as a stepping stone for a career NOT a Summer-only job.
Good Luck.
P.S. I CAN recommend Titan Airways at Stansted. They were the Mutts Nutts to work for.GW really knew how to inspire his workforce, he treated them with respect,decently and rewarded them well,I was sorry to leave them.
Oh and Emirates of course!!!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Grobelling through the murk to the sunshine above.
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Pontious
I think you'll find the boys who flew "fast-jets through The Lakes or Wales MTA" tend to gravitate towards such places as Virgin, BA or Cathay. The ex-mil folks on the charters tend to be Hercules or helicopter pilots.
I think you'll find the boys who flew "fast-jets through The Lakes or Wales MTA" tend to gravitate towards such places as Virgin, BA or Cathay. The ex-mil folks on the charters tend to be Hercules or helicopter pilots.
Aluminum Tubing Inspector
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Air UK Ltd
The good old days in Edinburgh and Norwich. NWI AMS NWI on a Saturday morning, back by 1025 with a case or 2 of Grolsch and time to get to the Pub before heading down to Carrow Road!
A great time and some fantastic crew in the cabin and on the flight deck.
Part of uniform issue were ear defenders becuase of the noise in the galley of the F27! Oh and thermal socks recommended for the winter.
Go off on a round the houses trip for 4/5 days and you could get your allowances up front!
Treated well and respected as were all the crew.
I believe it wasn't quite the case when they became Klm Uk....
The good old days in Edinburgh and Norwich. NWI AMS NWI on a Saturday morning, back by 1025 with a case or 2 of Grolsch and time to get to the Pub before heading down to Carrow Road!
A great time and some fantastic crew in the cabin and on the flight deck.
Part of uniform issue were ear defenders becuase of the noise in the galley of the F27! Oh and thermal socks recommended for the winter.
Go off on a round the houses trip for 4/5 days and you could get your allowances up front!
Treated well and respected as were all the crew.
I believe it wasn't quite the case when they became Klm Uk....
