Crew Layovers: What We Already Knew
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Cabin crew injured as man attacks them attempting to access cockpit
QANTAS flight from Melbourne to Launceston (Tasmania) returns to Melbourne after declaring an emergency:
A male and female cabin crew were injured yesterday as they subdued a man intent on getting into the cockpit. Unconfiormed reports say the man was shouting "I want to bring the plane down!" as he stabbed the male FA in the back of the head and the female in the face.
Even with his injuries, the male FA fought off the man and wrestled him to the floor. Then with assistance, the attacker was placed in "restraints" and handed over to police on arrival back in Melbourne.
As far as I am concerned, I don't think even chocolates are enough for these two FA's. Good on them!
I hope the tech crew show their appreciation when the FA's are released from hospital.
I wonder who is watching your back for you FW?
By the way, the aircraft did not have the cockpit door hardened.
QANTAS flight from Melbourne to Launceston (Tasmania) returns to Melbourne after declaring an emergency:
A male and female cabin crew were injured yesterday as they subdued a man intent on getting into the cockpit. Unconfiormed reports say the man was shouting "I want to bring the plane down!" as he stabbed the male FA in the back of the head and the female in the face.
Even with his injuries, the male FA fought off the man and wrestled him to the floor. Then with assistance, the attacker was placed in "restraints" and handed over to police on arrival back in Melbourne.
As far as I am concerned, I don't think even chocolates are enough for these two FA's. Good on them!
I hope the tech crew show their appreciation when the FA's are released from hospital.
I wonder who is watching your back for you FW?
By the way, the aircraft did not have the cockpit door hardened.
Good Times
The airline industy has not been very good to me lately but in the few years that it was I certainly could not complain about the interaction between the cabin crews and us in the cockpit.
Most layovers were of the boring short night type but there were plenty of good ones with generous and giving people in more ways than one.
In the modern airline environment there is rarely time for a good time but when there is one can fortunately still be had.
Perhaps some of you Englishmen can explain to this Yank what exactly a Wowser is? I get the idea but the term is new to me.
FW: You sound like you deserve everthing you don't get on layovers.Thats OK I will be happy to take your share as well as mine.
Reading this thread makes me eager to get back my airline seat when the current market turns around.
Cheers, Stearperson
Most layovers were of the boring short night type but there were plenty of good ones with generous and giving people in more ways than one.
In the modern airline environment there is rarely time for a good time but when there is one can fortunately still be had.
Perhaps some of you Englishmen can explain to this Yank what exactly a Wowser is? I get the idea but the term is new to me.
FW: You sound like you deserve everthing you don't get on layovers.Thats OK I will be happy to take your share as well as mine.
Reading this thread makes me eager to get back my airline seat when the current market turns around.
Cheers, Stearperson
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This thread is quite enlightening. It would appear apparent that most of the tech crew who have responded believe they have a pretty good chance with the cabin crew, if they can get them "in the mood", and that the cabin crew are happy to accomodate, provided they are bought out and buttered up first.
Little wonder aircrew have one of the highest rates of personal relationship failures of all work groups.
A party looking for somewhere to go, as long as someone else(whether it be the tech crew, or pax) is willing to foot the costs.
Peterbrat I concur with your sentiments, however we are not talking about sharing here. The sentiment of the majority would seem to favour the one with the highest salary support the others. Following this logic, any bill that comes during group outings should be divided directly proportional to incomes.
I have NEVER seen cabin crew do that between themselves - the most junior always pays the same as other cc's who are several years ahead incrementally.
Hypocritical then isn't it, that these same people who are advocating the Captain buy chocolates, and drinks to engender crew morale, do NOT do the same for those with whom they are in closer contact.
I don't see the problem with each crew member throwing the same set amount into the hat. Perhaps then, some cabin crew might not feel they have to offer their bodies, nor some tech crew feel they have made a potential "investment".
By the way Travelling Toolbox, I researched that story, and without taking anything away from the bravery exhibited by the 2 cc's, it would seem that it was 6 PASSENGERS who finally subdued the attacker.
I hope the FA's show the pax their appreciation when they are released from hospital.
A "man" who sticks to "his" convictions, Peterbrat?
Try again.
Little wonder aircrew have one of the highest rates of personal relationship failures of all work groups.
A party looking for somewhere to go, as long as someone else(whether it be the tech crew, or pax) is willing to foot the costs.
Peterbrat I concur with your sentiments, however we are not talking about sharing here. The sentiment of the majority would seem to favour the one with the highest salary support the others. Following this logic, any bill that comes during group outings should be divided directly proportional to incomes.
I have NEVER seen cabin crew do that between themselves - the most junior always pays the same as other cc's who are several years ahead incrementally.
Hypocritical then isn't it, that these same people who are advocating the Captain buy chocolates, and drinks to engender crew morale, do NOT do the same for those with whom they are in closer contact.
I don't see the problem with each crew member throwing the same set amount into the hat. Perhaps then, some cabin crew might not feel they have to offer their bodies, nor some tech crew feel they have made a potential "investment".
By the way Travelling Toolbox, I researched that story, and without taking anything away from the bravery exhibited by the 2 cc's, it would seem that it was 6 PASSENGERS who finally subdued the attacker.
I hope the FA's show the pax their appreciation when they are released from hospital.
A "man" who sticks to "his" convictions, Peterbrat?
Try again.
Whispering "T" Jet
........speaking of "in the mood".
There was a Irishman, an Italian and an Aussie all enjoying a quite drink in the bar on a cruise ship. The Irishman pipes up and says "Aye, this not be a real good bar. My friend Murphy runs a real good bar in Dublin and for every three Guiness you buy, you get one FREE!"
The Italian then replies "Thatsa notta reala gooda bar. My frienda Luigi has a reala gooda bar in Roma. For every one vino you buy you getta onr FREE!"
The Aussie, not to be outplayed. "Yeah, well my Mate Macca runs a pub in Bouke and you get free beer, free food and at the end of the night you get laid for free!"
"Did that happen to you then ?" asks the Irishman.
"Nah" replies the Aussie. "It happened to me sister."
There was a Irishman, an Italian and an Aussie all enjoying a quite drink in the bar on a cruise ship. The Irishman pipes up and says "Aye, this not be a real good bar. My friend Murphy runs a real good bar in Dublin and for every three Guiness you buy, you get one FREE!"
The Italian then replies "Thatsa notta reala gooda bar. My frienda Luigi has a reala gooda bar in Roma. For every one vino you buy you getta onr FREE!"
The Aussie, not to be outplayed. "Yeah, well my Mate Macca runs a pub in Bouke and you get free beer, free food and at the end of the night you get laid for free!"
"Did that happen to you then ?" asks the Irishman.
"Nah" replies the Aussie. "It happened to me sister."
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FW wrote: A "man" who sticks to "his" convictions..... ? Try again.
Reading between the lines it's all beginning to make a lot more sense, certainly so when put together with this recently obtained piccie of FW
:
Reading between the lines it's all beginning to make a lot more sense, certainly so when put together with this recently obtained piccie of FW
:
I am a figment of my own imagination
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Jeeez... I am sorry FW, my appologies. By the way you really should either lay off those choccies or share them out they are playing havoc with your smile, what was the occasion or had you just been given a raise.
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Sounds like FW is similar to a couple of our Captains, who after a shared dinner and split bill casually ask if it's OK to put it on their credit card. They then trousers the tip in cash and pay the bill only ! Problem is, they get found out and get the 'special' from the grill on the way home ! If you piss off the back end, bring sandwiches and a flask, it's going to be a long night 
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Party time
I think Foreign worker is just trying to get areaction of how stingy someone can get.Ofcourse, The Captain owes his crew a drink and I always carry the duty free stuff and even remember which of my youngsters drink what.
Hey, Devil's Advocate - I know an ex-VC10 Flight Engineer who wouldn't think twice if that old bat said "Yes"!
Last I heard he was flying those old 727s which smoke so badly you'd think they were running on coal!
Last I heard he was flying those old 727s which smoke so badly you'd think they were running on coal!
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Beagle - he's probably typical of most engineers ( g'awd bless'em ) who by way of advanced preparation ensures he doubles-up on the double-bagging protection, as well as making sure not to look at the mantelpiece whilst poking the fire ! 
Mind you, have you ever noticed that, when down route, it's always the engineers who seem to know 'the most interesting venues' - uhm, I feel a thread coming on....... 
Mind you, have you ever noticed that, when down route, it's always the engineers who seem to know 'the most interesting venues'
- uhm, I feel a thread coming on.......
Thread Starter
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Foreign Worker wrote:
By all means I am not against crews having a fun time together, however when the bill comes I think it more than a little unreasonable for cabin crew to expect cockpit crew to pay more because they earn more.
Then again perhaps airline employees are socialists in the main.
If it's decided that one group should shoulder a little more of the burden because thay happen to earn more, it's certainly not the first and only application of this practice.
I believe the intra-island airlines in Hawaii charge lower airfares to the locals than they do to the mainland tourists.
I believe there's a two-tier money system in China where foreign tourists (who have lots of money) are charged more for the same goods and services than locals, who do not have quite so much money.
These are just two of many examples.
Is this fair? No. But who ever said life was fair?
"From each according to his ability, to each, according to his need."
K. Marx
CEO of MarxAir
By all means I am not against crews having a fun time together, however when the bill comes I think it more than a little unreasonable for cabin crew to expect cockpit crew to pay more because they earn more.
Then again perhaps airline employees are socialists in the main.
If it's decided that one group should shoulder a little more of the burden because thay happen to earn more, it's certainly not the first and only application of this practice.
I believe the intra-island airlines in Hawaii charge lower airfares to the locals than they do to the mainland tourists.
I believe there's a two-tier money system in China where foreign tourists (who have lots of money) are charged more for the same goods and services than locals, who do not have quite so much money.
These are just two of many examples.
Is this fair? No. But who ever said life was fair?
"From each according to his ability, to each, according to his need."
K. Marx
CEO of MarxAir
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Fw Misses two very important points in his posts.
The first is pure and simple mathematics. The Cabin Crew's allowances make up a far larger part of their total package, and thus blowing a big hole in them (very often to subsidise an unequal share of a bill) is not an experience they will wish to repeat too often.
Why should this social interaction be important? This is the second point.
FW may be a very fine pilot, but as all the Mice in the RHS, waitng, watching and learning on the way to becoming the Rat in the LHS, will find, there is a big difference between just a good pilot and a good commander. A good command course is about much more than teaching the left hand to fly. Welding a disparate group of individuals into a cohesive crew is a major part of the Captain's task, and whilst a round of drinks, or the odd bottle will not buy you respect, it may well be the social icebreaker which allows the Commander to create the mutual respect so essential to a good crew. My last airline had an unspoken policy of `First round is the Captain's for those who wish to attend'. This was pushed as one facet of command, and I found it highly effective- once they've attended, you can work on the teamwork. So all you chaps in the RHS, watch the good commanders and see how they do these things, it is very often not aboout having a good time, or fancying your chance with the Cabin Crew, but about Leadership. A small price to pay from a Captain's salary for such great benefits
The first is pure and simple mathematics. The Cabin Crew's allowances make up a far larger part of their total package, and thus blowing a big hole in them (very often to subsidise an unequal share of a bill) is not an experience they will wish to repeat too often.
Why should this social interaction be important? This is the second point.
FW may be a very fine pilot, but as all the Mice in the RHS, waitng, watching and learning on the way to becoming the Rat in the LHS, will find, there is a big difference between just a good pilot and a good commander. A good command course is about much more than teaching the left hand to fly. Welding a disparate group of individuals into a cohesive crew is a major part of the Captain's task, and whilst a round of drinks, or the odd bottle will not buy you respect, it may well be the social icebreaker which allows the Commander to create the mutual respect so essential to a good crew. My last airline had an unspoken policy of `First round is the Captain's for those who wish to attend'. This was pushed as one facet of command, and I found it highly effective- once they've attended, you can work on the teamwork. So all you chaps in the RHS, watch the good commanders and see how they do these things, it is very often not aboout having a good time, or fancying your chance with the Cabin Crew, but about Leadership. A small price to pay from a Captain's salary for such great benefits
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Friendship, and respect, are earned - not bought.
Again I repeat my earlier question, How many of you pilots with families spend an equivalent amount on them when you return home?.
Very few methinks, unless it's to take them down to the nearest McDonalds so that you can scrimp enough away for your next night stop.
Let's be honest people, the money spent is looked at as an investment - short, medium, or longer term. Unfortunately the "investment" then evolves into having to divest oneself of previously gained acquisitons at the divorce settlement.
Many pilots who think themselves excellent practicioners of CRM might look at their own personal relationships with those who are financially dependent upon them, versus those who are "good time buddies" only.
Again I repeat my earlier question, How many of you pilots with families spend an equivalent amount on them when you return home?.
Very few methinks, unless it's to take them down to the nearest McDonalds so that you can scrimp enough away for your next night stop.
Let's be honest people, the money spent is looked at as an investment - short, medium, or longer term. Unfortunately the "investment" then evolves into having to divest oneself of previously gained acquisitons at the divorce settlement.
Many pilots who think themselves excellent practicioners of CRM might look at their own personal relationships with those who are financially dependent upon them, versus those who are "good time buddies" only.
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The term nightstop or layover certainly brings back many happy memories for me.
'Delsy diners' were unheard of.
Order of the day, regardless of time of the day was a crew room party 15 mins after arrival at the hotel. Although attendance was not compulsory, the entire crew 11 C/C 2/3 pilots generally showed.
Seating was at a premium. 3 people on each bed, three on the chairs and the rest distributed equally between floor and furniture.
Once a few drinks had been consumed, the camaraderie and humour shared between so many people in such a relatively small space still brings a smile to my face.
Gradually, in various states of inebriation, people would retire to their own rooms to sleep it off. The party animals would continue until the booze, sleep depravation or a combination of both finally got the better of them.
As the cigarrette smoke gradually cleared, the advantage of holding the crew party in my room became clear. Any hostie interested in a bit of jiggery pokery, or too drunk to leave under own steam would still be there. Modesty aside, being a young, straight and good looking steward (well I was) my success rate in the drunken exchange of bodily fluids dept was exemplary.
Alas, it seems those days are gone. Marrying one of the above curtailed my enjoyment of such activities somewhat! but offered alternative life experiences, including kids, that I would not exchange.
Don't know why I've posted this. Just started and kept going. This thread brought back happy memories of happy days. In my day, in my airline, crews stuck together to eat, take trips out and party. The odd miserable prat like FW apart, our flight deck were generally an integral part of the crew activities and shared our sense of fun and good humour. They never had to dig their hands any deeper into their pockets than the rest of us. They weren't expected to and why should they?
We mostly live our lives according to our means don't we?
'Delsy diners' were unheard of.
Order of the day, regardless of time of the day was a crew room party 15 mins after arrival at the hotel. Although attendance was not compulsory, the entire crew 11 C/C 2/3 pilots generally showed.
Seating was at a premium. 3 people on each bed, three on the chairs and the rest distributed equally between floor and furniture.
Once a few drinks had been consumed, the camaraderie and humour shared between so many people in such a relatively small space still brings a smile to my face.
Gradually, in various states of inebriation, people would retire to their own rooms to sleep it off. The party animals would continue until the booze, sleep depravation or a combination of both finally got the better of them.
As the cigarrette smoke gradually cleared, the advantage of holding the crew party in my room became clear. Any hostie interested in a bit of jiggery pokery, or too drunk to leave under own steam would still be there. Modesty aside, being a young, straight and good looking steward (well I was) my success rate in the drunken exchange of bodily fluids dept was exemplary.
Alas, it seems those days are gone. Marrying one of the above curtailed my enjoyment of such activities somewhat! but offered alternative life experiences, including kids, that I would not exchange.
Don't know why I've posted this. Just started and kept going. This thread brought back happy memories of happy days. In my day, in my airline, crews stuck together to eat, take trips out and party. The odd miserable prat like FW apart, our flight deck were generally an integral part of the crew activities and shared our sense of fun and good humour. They never had to dig their hands any deeper into their pockets than the rest of us. They weren't expected to and why should they?
We mostly live our lives according to our means don't we?
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Whiskey Zulu--You posted it because it summs up the whole thread. That's what layovers are supposed to be like. Screw the jealous ground pounder management that are trying their best to steal the future of such layovers from those of us willing to embark on this career.TC
