And the future holds???
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And the future holds???
Hi all,
Please excuse me if this topic has been covered elsewhere, or there have been similar topics in the past, but I really have to get this off my chest.
I am a 24 year old PPL, with a valid night rating and instrument rating, and only have a few exams to go to finish my South African Comm. I am not financially in the position to study for my JAR licence at the moment, but am I am living in the UK now. I attended an aviation seminar recently, and found out a few interesting and disappointing facts.
Having read through the forums regularly, I have read of Easy Jet's situation, and have it on reliable information that BA is about to retrench 100 pilots next week. Sure, I can understand that political situations are leading to uneasy times re: oil price etc, but at the seminar they told us that 40% of all UK airline pilots would be retiring within the next five years, while air travel was expected to continue expanding. I asked them what plans they had to replace these pilots, and the answer was... zero. There are currently very few airlines providing cadet schemes to wouldbe airline pilots like myself who can't afford a fortune to get their ATPL's themselves. Surely this will lead to a shortage of pilots and therefore a possible reduction in safety and standards I ask. No answer.
Then I ask where I would stand with regards to a cadet scheme if there was one, and am told that I would be very unlikely to get into a scheme, as airlines generally try to get people in on ab initio courses and train them in their own way, and I have too many hours, and therefore have developed bad habits.
Reading between the lines then, it seems that airlines would rather place their faith in people with relatively no experience for cadet schemes, than look at people that have proven their committment to aviation, and have sold their grandmothers to get as far as they have. The aviation industry has always been particularly fickle, and lets face it, job security is not a big plus factor, but there are some of us that are prepared to accept that and worse to acheive our ambitions.
So whereto from here? Well, I am now forced into a decision that I didn't want to have to make. I'm financially finished, so continuing with aviation is a non starter. Perhaps I'll become a plumber, and will always be left looking over my shoulder and thinking what if... and the aviation industry will have lost a dedicated, keen and enthusiastic pilot. Worrying times ahead indeed!
Anyone else in this boat?
Stormme
Please excuse me if this topic has been covered elsewhere, or there have been similar topics in the past, but I really have to get this off my chest.
I am a 24 year old PPL, with a valid night rating and instrument rating, and only have a few exams to go to finish my South African Comm. I am not financially in the position to study for my JAR licence at the moment, but am I am living in the UK now. I attended an aviation seminar recently, and found out a few interesting and disappointing facts.
Having read through the forums regularly, I have read of Easy Jet's situation, and have it on reliable information that BA is about to retrench 100 pilots next week. Sure, I can understand that political situations are leading to uneasy times re: oil price etc, but at the seminar they told us that 40% of all UK airline pilots would be retiring within the next five years, while air travel was expected to continue expanding. I asked them what plans they had to replace these pilots, and the answer was... zero. There are currently very few airlines providing cadet schemes to wouldbe airline pilots like myself who can't afford a fortune to get their ATPL's themselves. Surely this will lead to a shortage of pilots and therefore a possible reduction in safety and standards I ask. No answer.
Then I ask where I would stand with regards to a cadet scheme if there was one, and am told that I would be very unlikely to get into a scheme, as airlines generally try to get people in on ab initio courses and train them in their own way, and I have too many hours, and therefore have developed bad habits.
Reading between the lines then, it seems that airlines would rather place their faith in people with relatively no experience for cadet schemes, than look at people that have proven their committment to aviation, and have sold their grandmothers to get as far as they have. The aviation industry has always been particularly fickle, and lets face it, job security is not a big plus factor, but there are some of us that are prepared to accept that and worse to acheive our ambitions.
So whereto from here? Well, I am now forced into a decision that I didn't want to have to make. I'm financially finished, so continuing with aviation is a non starter. Perhaps I'll become a plumber, and will always be left looking over my shoulder and thinking what if... and the aviation industry will have lost a dedicated, keen and enthusiastic pilot. Worrying times ahead indeed!
Anyone else in this boat?
Stormme
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Stormme66
The avaition industry was ever thus so, if I am honest given my time over again and knowing what I do I think I would have avoided the aviation business all together.
Not much comfort for you though, at the moment a lot of us are rather demoralised and wondering what next.
As a BA pilot though I would be interested in knowing where you have heard about 100 of us being put out to grass, I work for the airline and have heard nothing, but then whats new.
The avaition industry was ever thus so, if I am honest given my time over again and knowing what I do I think I would have avoided the aviation business all together.
Not much comfort for you though, at the moment a lot of us are rather demoralised and wondering what next.
As a BA pilot though I would be interested in knowing where you have heard about 100 of us being put out to grass, I work for the airline and have heard nothing, but then whats new.
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Hi Amazon Man
Many thanks for your reply, it is much appreciated. I would rather not say who the source of information is, except to say that he is a pilot at BA, and is worried at the moment!
I think demoralized is an understatement of epic proportions, my life has been turned upside down by the whole situation. If I was more in touch with my spiritual side, I would think it was a sign. At one stage I was on the verge of signing a contract with a school in Bournemouth for my ATPL, but luckily delayed, as they went under the following week. Instead, I went went out to Africa, and got completely screwed by a shark there, lost about 4000 in the process. Makes you wonder if it is just not meant to be. Still, if there is the slightest possibility of getting anywhere, I am sure that I will probably sell my grandpa's ashes to follow up on it. Guess we never learn huh?
Anyway, hope you are not affected by the probs looming.
All the best
Stormme
Many thanks for your reply, it is much appreciated. I would rather not say who the source of information is, except to say that he is a pilot at BA, and is worried at the moment!
I think demoralized is an understatement of epic proportions, my life has been turned upside down by the whole situation. If I was more in touch with my spiritual side, I would think it was a sign. At one stage I was on the verge of signing a contract with a school in Bournemouth for my ATPL, but luckily delayed, as they went under the following week. Instead, I went went out to Africa, and got completely screwed by a shark there, lost about 4000 in the process. Makes you wonder if it is just not meant to be. Still, if there is the slightest possibility of getting anywhere, I am sure that I will probably sell my grandpa's ashes to follow up on it. Guess we never learn huh?
Anyway, hope you are not affected by the probs looming.
All the best
Stormme
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Storrme,
Good questions asked.... Love to know the answers!
Probably asking the blatently obvious, but have you tried applying to airlines in a different capacity (or department)? Places like Flight ops and safety office spring to mind. This industry is very much who you know, and that seems to be a good way to meet people. I know this worked for some people in my company.
All the best!
Good questions asked.... Love to know the answers!
Probably asking the blatently obvious, but have you tried applying to airlines in a different capacity (or department)? Places like Flight ops and safety office spring to mind. This industry is very much who you know, and that seems to be a good way to meet people. I know this worked for some people in my company.
All the best!
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Hi Spirit,
Good thinking, hadn't thought of it to be honest, I just assumed that you would need experience in the field, and was focusing on the flying only. Will give it a go though, anything is better than nothing... as they say, assumption is the mother of all f**k-ups! Thanks for the advice Spirit.
Blue Skies and happy landings,
Stormme
Good thinking, hadn't thought of it to be honest, I just assumed that you would need experience in the field, and was focusing on the flying only. Will give it a go though, anything is better than nothing... as they say, assumption is the mother of all f**k-ups! Thanks for the advice Spirit.
Blue Skies and happy landings,
Stormme
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I think BA recruitment guys will always steer clear of PPL's for cadetships & self improvers for DEP.
At the last BALPA EOC, I asked the two BA reps to clarify why they look at the length time from CPL issue to IR.
Being a self improver and going the BCPL route, I had to wait until i logged 600 hrs before I could do my IR then get my CPL / IR issued at 700hrs. I had been instructing to gain the hours & the time was about a year.
I asked if I would be discriminated due to the length of time, and the guy said YES! Why I asked, and he said " We dont really know what you have been up to in that time! "
B7%$dy hard work teaching students in a controlled airspace environment, and training pilots without bad habits because I would have been caught out at the first student I put in for test!
If you have a PPL, try for every sponsorship going because some one has to get them. Remember some organisations make money on testing, other wise try a cdl, personal loan, visa etc all of what I did (£7000 on CC & 17 still on a Per loan) to sponsor yourself. Get a job in op's etc & some body will one day benefit from your loyalty.
At the last BALPA EOC, I asked the two BA reps to clarify why they look at the length time from CPL issue to IR.
Being a self improver and going the BCPL route, I had to wait until i logged 600 hrs before I could do my IR then get my CPL / IR issued at 700hrs. I had been instructing to gain the hours & the time was about a year.
I asked if I would be discriminated due to the length of time, and the guy said YES! Why I asked, and he said " We dont really know what you have been up to in that time! "
B7%$dy hard work teaching students in a controlled airspace environment, and training pilots without bad habits because I would have been caught out at the first student I put in for test!
If you have a PPL, try for every sponsorship going because some one has to get them. Remember some organisations make money on testing, other wise try a cdl, personal loan, visa etc all of what I did (£7000 on CC & 17 still on a Per loan) to sponsor yourself. Get a job in op's etc & some body will one day benefit from your loyalty.
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The big picture is that aviation will grow because everyday the world population increases, which translates into more more pax and more cargo to be transported.
Ten years from now you'll be 34, probably in the left seat of some jet somwhere, and you'll look back to the upheaval of today and say: "...Gee, what was that all about." Because this business of living and travelling just goes on, whether the World has gone mad or not.
Ten years from now you'll be 34, probably in the left seat of some jet somwhere, and you'll look back to the upheaval of today and say: "...Gee, what was that all about." Because this business of living and travelling just goes on, whether the World has gone mad or not.
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GlueBall is right Stormme.
Historically aviation has been a very fickle industry, but it has always rebounded from its upheavals. There will always be people who will need to fly for business, and those who want to go on holiday, never mind all the freight.
I am also out of a job at the moment thanks to 9/11, and have been banging my head against all sorts of Airlines walls for about 18 months now trying to get a job. We just have to have faith and patience. The knowledge that in all probability in ten years time I will be 35 and in the left seat of a nice jet keeps me going. As you said if you go and become a plumber or whatever, you will always regret it and think of what might have been. We only get one chance at this life, we gotta fight to do what we want and love to do. I know guys who have given up and they spend their whole time making excuses and making themselves feel better about the decision they made, but they still end up bitter and twisted!
I also know guys who have had it rough, working three jobs to get through their license, and then only getting a cr@p job after 2 years of nothing, and other guys who have instructed for endless years to get their time up. They all win in the end. They all love what they do now, and every single one will say it was worth it.
Hang in there. Perserverence always pays off. The industry is up to SH!T right now, but it will change eventually. Sell your grandad's ashes mate!
Good luck to you and all of us out there trying to get in, or back in!
Historically aviation has been a very fickle industry, but it has always rebounded from its upheavals. There will always be people who will need to fly for business, and those who want to go on holiday, never mind all the freight.
I am also out of a job at the moment thanks to 9/11, and have been banging my head against all sorts of Airlines walls for about 18 months now trying to get a job. We just have to have faith and patience. The knowledge that in all probability in ten years time I will be 35 and in the left seat of a nice jet keeps me going. As you said if you go and become a plumber or whatever, you will always regret it and think of what might have been. We only get one chance at this life, we gotta fight to do what we want and love to do. I know guys who have given up and they spend their whole time making excuses and making themselves feel better about the decision they made, but they still end up bitter and twisted!
I also know guys who have had it rough, working three jobs to get through their license, and then only getting a cr@p job after 2 years of nothing, and other guys who have instructed for endless years to get their time up. They all win in the end. They all love what they do now, and every single one will say it was worth it.
Hang in there. Perserverence always pays off. The industry is up to SH!T right now, but it will change eventually. Sell your grandad's ashes mate!
Good luck to you and all of us out there trying to get in, or back in!
