JMC...Flying the flag???
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JMC...Flying the flag???
Is it my imagination, or are the new THOMAS COOK 757s sporting the union flag (union jack) upside down on the right hand side of the fuselage?
G-FCLF seems to have it wrong.
Anyone?
G-FCLF seems to have it wrong.
Anyone?
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How can it be upside down? I thought the Union Jack was symmetrical... If you turn it upside down it looks the same... right? 
Too many night Tenerife's for you I think
G-FCLF looks fine to me from both sides:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/297404/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/303977/L/
Too many night Tenerife's for you I think
G-FCLF looks fine to me from both sides:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/297404/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/303977/L/
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Localiser Green, the Union Jack isn't symmetrical, thought everyone knew that....................link below explains it.
http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/uni...nion-jack.html
http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/uni...nion-jack.html
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The Union Flag is only called the "Union Jack" when it is flown from the mast of a War Ship, hence the expression "Jolly Jack"
when refering to members of Her Majesty's Imperial Boating Club . Hope this helps. 
when refering to members of Her Majesty's Imperial Boating Club .
Hope this helps.
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As Smokie has already said, the flag we are all referring to is the Union Flag NOT the union Jack. It should only be referred to as the Union Jack when flown from a ships mast. So is the Union Jack on JMC upside down?? NO, becuase it's not a Union Jack, its the union flag - easy answer and saves me bothering to llok at any pics.
TFS
TFS
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And not only that it has to be the jackstaff (a small mast at the pointy end for the pupose of hoisting a jack when alongside or at anchor) the rest of the time you have a big white ensign at the blunt end when alongside or at anchor or a smaller WE flown from the mainmast when underway so there
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And another thing.
Why do the Condor B-757's have the logo "Powered by Condor" painted on the rear fuse, when we all know that the engine of choice for the B757 is the Rolls Royce RB211?
Why do the Condor B-757's have the logo "Powered by Condor" painted on the rear fuse, when we all know that the engine of choice for the B757 is the Rolls Royce RB211?
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Random,
Apparently it was because 'Condor' is such a strong brand in germany (unlike jmc in the uk). Many of the C&N workers are unhappy at losing the name, and it makes sense to to publicise the link.
.... I think...
Apparently it was because 'Condor' is such a strong brand in germany (unlike jmc in the uk). Many of the C&N workers are unhappy at losing the name, and it makes sense to to publicise the link.
.... I think...
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"we all know the engine of choice for the 757 is the RB211"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have just seen a P&W powered Condor 757 taxi past the window, must be seeing things..........???!!!
"we all know the engine of choice for the 757 is the RB211"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have just seen a P&W powered Condor 757 taxi past the window, must be seeing things..........???!!!
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boldmick -
I had the same thought to start with. I assume that it is rotationaly similar - that is to say if you turned your monitor upside down, (if you still had a picture ) it would be the same, but if you had the actual flag and you turned it over so that you were looking at the other side, it would be different. Is this the case folks?
I had the same thought to start with. I assume that it is rotationaly similar - that is to say if you turned your monitor upside down, (if you still had a picture
) it would be the same, but if you had the actual flag and you turned it over so that you were looking at the other side, it would be different. Is this the case folks?
Technically and legally, they shouldn't be showing the Union Flag at all but the Civil Air Ensign (a bit like the White Ensign but with dark blue and light blue instead of red and white on the main body of the flag, both with the Union Flag in one quadrant), on the tail of the aircraft (akin to the stern of a ship).
The Civil Air Ensign was introduced on 23 September 1931 for use, as I recall, by "air transport undertakings" ie civil airports, terminals and aircraft. I haven't been able to check recently but it could always be seen flying at MAN, outside the airport fire station. I hope it still is.
In the case of the Union Flag, you say it's apparently inverted on the starboard side of the aircraft. The painted flags should replicate the flying of the flag from a mast (in the old days, as poked out of the flight deck roof on the ground and still done today for Royal aircraft). A flag on a mast has names for the two side edges, the hoist (nearer the mast) and the fly (further from the mast). When the flag is streaming from the mast and it is viewed from the port side of the aircraft, the hoist side (on the left) will have the broader white stripes above the red stripes and this is the usual view one sees of a painted or printed Union Flag.
However, on the starboard side of the aircraft, the hoist will be on the right and this will have the broader white stripes above the red stripes. So on the left, fly, edge the broader white will be below the red and will thus appear to be inverted when compared with the traditional view of a painted or printed Union Flag.
So, if you're still with me, the broader white stripes are not always above the red stripes on the left side of the flag but are always above the red on the hoist side. The paint shop has got it right after all!
And in answer to the naval purists, while acknowledging that the Union Flag on the nose is the incorrect flag in the first place (should be the Civil Air Ensign on the tail), it could be termed the Union Jack because it's replicating being flown from the bow of the aircraft. It could be argued that flying a Union Jack on the nose/bow is in fact historically correct because originally, flying a Union Jack on the bow was not limited to Royal Navy vessels but was also done by the Merchant Navy (and hence followed by the Merchant Air Service). However, the Merchant Navy no longer does it so probably the Merchant Air Service shouldn't either.
End of lecture on Flags 101.
The Civil Air Ensign was introduced on 23 September 1931 for use, as I recall, by "air transport undertakings" ie civil airports, terminals and aircraft. I haven't been able to check recently but it could always be seen flying at MAN, outside the airport fire station. I hope it still is.
In the case of the Union Flag, you say it's apparently inverted on the starboard side of the aircraft. The painted flags should replicate the flying of the flag from a mast (in the old days, as poked out of the flight deck roof on the ground and still done today for Royal aircraft). A flag on a mast has names for the two side edges, the hoist (nearer the mast) and the fly (further from the mast). When the flag is streaming from the mast and it is viewed from the port side of the aircraft, the hoist side (on the left) will have the broader white stripes above the red stripes and this is the usual view one sees of a painted or printed Union Flag.
However, on the starboard side of the aircraft, the hoist will be on the right and this will have the broader white stripes above the red stripes. So on the left, fly, edge the broader white will be below the red and will thus appear to be inverted when compared with the traditional view of a painted or printed Union Flag.
So, if you're still with me, the broader white stripes are not always above the red stripes on the left side of the flag but are always above the red on the hoist side. The paint shop has got it right after all!
And in answer to the naval purists, while acknowledging that the Union Flag on the nose is the incorrect flag in the first place (should be the Civil Air Ensign on the tail), it could be termed the Union Jack because it's replicating being flown from the bow of the aircraft. It could be argued that flying a Union Jack on the nose/bow is in fact historically correct because originally, flying a Union Jack on the bow was not limited to Royal Navy vessels but was also done by the Merchant Navy (and hence followed by the Merchant Air Service). However, the Merchant Navy no longer does it so probably the Merchant Air Service shouldn't either.
End of lecture on Flags 101.
Last edited by Hew Jampton; 17th Feb 2003 at 15:10.
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Hew,
Its still there. Just checked whilst I was was down on B pier. Thanks for the explantion, I always wondered what that flag actually was, as it looks very much like the RAF ensign from a distance.
Its still there. Just checked whilst I was was down on B pier. Thanks for the explantion, I always wondered what that flag actually was, as it looks very much like the RAF ensign from a distance.
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Got to agree with BOLDMICK here, surely the Union Flag being turned upside down wouldn't change its appearance.....whilst inverting it, or looking at it from the other side so to speak would be noticed.
LJ.
LJ.
Stand 22
Thanks, glad to know it's still there.
If anyone else wants to see what the Civil Air Ensign looks like, go to www.flags.net/UNKG.htm . This site also shows how the Union Flag/Jack isn't symmetrical. Further to the discussion on whether it should be called the Union Jack if flown at the bow/nose of a civil vessel/aircraft, there's a special flag for this called the UK Civil Jack (also shown on the web page), a Union Flag with a white border, so this should be the one painted on the aircraft's nose.
If you enter "Civil Air Ensign" (with the quotes) into Google Image, it comes up with the UK one, plus those for some other, mainly Comonwealth, countries.
Thanks, glad to know it's still there.
If anyone else wants to see what the Civil Air Ensign looks like, go to www.flags.net/UNKG.htm . This site also shows how the Union Flag/Jack isn't symmetrical. Further to the discussion on whether it should be called the Union Jack if flown at the bow/nose of a civil vessel/aircraft, there's a special flag for this called the UK Civil Jack (also shown on the web page), a Union Flag with a white border, so this should be the one painted on the aircraft's nose.
If you enter "Civil Air Ensign" (with the quotes) into Google Image, it comes up with the UK one, plus those for some other, mainly Comonwealth, countries.
