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Another OTT kneejerk reaction?

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Another OTT kneejerk reaction?

Old 24th Dec 2002, 13:13
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Red face Another OTT kneejerk reaction?

Reading a thread on the SLF forum, I note that BA Tech Library which used to provide enthusiasts with old "superceded" Aerad Directories and Airway Charts now (since 911) have to shred them! Oh yes that will definitely stop Bin Liner and his killers in their tracks. Me thinks he can afford new ones from a host of sources. When is all this stupidity going to stop?
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Old 28th Dec 2002, 01:18
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Question Avman

Are you sure you havn't got the wrong take on this.

Any obsolete chart or plate can get into the hands of a wannabe.
We used to donate them to the local enthusiast shop at the airport, and what he did was up to him. Now every chart has obsolete in big letters on both sides, or like the plates, is torn in half. Any aviation mag can reproduce a plate (PPR) and guess what is quoted on the reproduction, a big disclaimer.
The skys are busy, have the right plates and charts, or be a flight safety risk, to yourself, and everyone else.

If you fly in Europe, and no I do not, but am a Europen Ops guy, you will see the point, OLD CHARTS/PLATES ARE A FLIGHT SAFETY RISK. Flight safety is the only 100% mandatory target in aviation.

Since 9/11 our (commercial airline insurance) premiums are sky high, and may have closed down a number of airlines, please do not ask us to expose ourselves any further

Keepsakes will be available, as ever, but let us decide what is and is not. For what ever reason, charts and plates are not.


No offence to the 99.9 percent of well briefed wannabes

You all fly safe, and well bried ya hear

bored
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Old 28th Dec 2002, 01:34
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bored!
I see where you are coming from here with your correct comments re out of date aerads (which could become a hazard [but to whom?]).
In the same spirit please let me suggest that we ban cars. Please accept this as a terrific suggestion as plainly we will save a couple of thousand (mainly children, yours or mine) EVERY year.
In fact, as my own contribution to SAFETY!!!!, lets all stay in bed, of a morning.
What!.. You want us to sit in a wee metal see-gar toob, while you (andme too) charge thro the skies at 600 kt?
Shurely shome mishtake?.

Its a wee point i know, but avman is correct
Where will it ever end?
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Old 28th Dec 2002, 02:02
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A (reasonably) fair point Bored, but a case overstated. As most pilots have no wish to meet an early demise I would suggest that the vast majority (i.e. 99.999999%) will check the currency of their charts, en route supps etc before planning a flight uing them. Therefore what possible harm can stocking old charts, plates, Aerad Dirs an en route supps hold? I would suggest none, and no reason emerges that I can think of for keeping them out of the public domain either. I doubt very much that Al Quaeda will look to repat 911 because vigilance has improved (sic) since then. I would suggest that they will now be looking for another soft target, and so keeping avn at more than an arms reach of enthusiasts will be detremental to the cause of avn. I would also argue that many of the decisions taken in the past 15 months have been based on the premise of doing something, even if poorly considered, is better than doing nothing and so we have some ill-conceived regulations coming out of the DfT and some over-reaching SOPs from airlines.

Just my 0.02
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Old 28th Dec 2002, 16:36
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Everyairline has atleast 1 pilot who steals light bulbs from the hotel room because he is too cheap. I know atleast one guy who does that who would use out of date plates in his own aircraft as long as the changes "aren't too great"...

Nope, I think this one is spot on. The only thing that should be passed out would be the Generic "how to read a plate" plate

Just imagine the lawsuits if even 1 expired plate is found in the crash scene that came from your airline, regardless of whether it was actually used or not.

Cheers
Wino
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Old 28th Dec 2002, 17:22
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Wish I could get hold of some old AERAD supplements, better than the Jepp rubbish we use.
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Old 28th Dec 2002, 17:51
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Light bulbs from lamps, Wino?
Knew a guy one time who had a whole collection of lamps (nevermind just the bulbs), mostly from Holiday and Ramada Inns.
Have no idea how he got 'em in the suitcase...in pieces I guess.
His undoing came when he tried to pry a wool tapistry off the wall in a hotel in ZRH...caught red-handed and went straight to jail...where the police found another lamp in his suitcase.
His airline was not amused, and terminated him two weeks later.
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Old 29th Dec 2002, 09:48
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I think it is a very sensible precaution to stop a second market developing with these charts. Out of date charts are nothing but a danger.
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Old 1st Jan 2003, 22:44
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Bored

Ho Hum ......see what a wasps' nest you step into when dealing with non-aviation peeps ( I am in that category!!). If the bad guys can get false passports, visas, flying school accreditations etc getting the odd up to date Jepp or Aerad isn't goping to be a problem .......yeah so there not available chaeply any more ......so what ?

PeterJ
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Old 5th Jan 2003, 23:58
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411A - did they terminate him, or just terminate his contract ?
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Old 6th Jan 2003, 02:33
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Just his contract, a very civil pilot, he might still be walking around for all I know.

Old charts.
Lots of young folks (and a few older ones) are aviation enthusiasts, so why not sell/provide the old charts with "obsolete for use in air navigation" stamped on them in big red letters.

Seems simple enough.
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