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What was considered long-haul in the 70s and what now?

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What was considered long-haul in the 70s and what now?

Old 2nd Jun 2019, 19:15
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Or Boeing Only Airline Company
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Old 2nd Jun 2019, 19:21
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During Profumo it was Bend Over Again Christine...
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Old 2nd Jun 2019, 21:31
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Originally Posted by RetiredBA/BY
Well, that was one. BOAC could also be known as Boys Overseas After Crumpet !
I don't suppose they meant French bakery. :-)

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During Profumo it was Bend Over Again Christine...
Come on!!! I have to look up all your jokes on the internet!!! :-))) I didn't even know either of those names before today. :-))
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Old 2nd Jun 2019, 21:45
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Originally Posted by Bergerie1
Or Boeing Only Airline Company
In all fairness, Airbus didn't exist back then. :-)

I'm watching lots of documentaries about British planes of the era. They all start with (that lovely alveolar R) "RRevol-YU-tionary design" and inevitably end with "BOAC refused to buy it" implying that BOAC was some sort of a bad monster who destroyed the British aircraft industry.

But considering that Britania caught fire and crash landed with the KLM delegation onboard, could it be that BOAC was simply afraid to buy locally? Howard Hughes wanted to buy Britania for TWA but was told that 25 aircraft was too much of an ask for Bristol's manufacturing capabilities. (I'm simplifying)

Why buy a "revolutionary design" that doesn't work and becomes an orphan, while they could buy a Stratocruiser or later a 707. Especially after the locally acquired Comet brought nothing but trouble to them. Could it be that BOAC was monsterized while it was actually a victim?
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Old 4th Jun 2019, 19:49
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Propax
I was a regular on the BCAL Santiago flight coming back and forth to school in the UK when my father worked there. I used to do it 3 times a year for 4 years from the early 1970,s at first with an “ Auntie “ - retired stewardess and then as I got older on my own. Flight of 19 hours I seem to remember as being some what aspirational, as after travelling to London I always seemed to miss the connection and end up being put up in a hotel before onward flight. As for what the airports were like in that period down route I would have to say they were a lot more primitive. Indeed my parents had a photo of me at Palma circa 1963 besides a Nissan hut with a donkey and hitch rail which was the terminal. We flew in an Ambassador on that occasion. All the aforementioned BCAL flights were on 707 and stops were Freetown, Rio, BA, Santiago I think, and from Gatwick. Flights in UK to Scotland were BCAL 1-11.

Regards
Mr Mac

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Old 5th Jun 2019, 11:08
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ProPax,

But Vickers did, and BOAC did not do Vickers any favours over the VC10. That was when the slogan, the Boeing Only Airline Company, was invented. (It may have been Corporation rather than Company - the brain cells fail me!). But I was flying VC10s.
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 11:24
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Originally Posted by pax britanica
R747,, nice stop overs on that route though.
Has to be one of the most exotic routes ever along with a Qantas 70's flight in their shortened 707s LHR-Nassau Mexico City Papeetee /Tahiti Sydney, so called fiesta route-the leg out of MEX altitude must have been a challenge at times -definately Long haul
They were't 'shortened' B707s. Rather they were -300s. Between Papeete and Mexico City, they transited Acapulco. Also operated via Bermuda in each direction.
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 11:29
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Fiesta route

Originally Posted by Ken Borough
They were't 'shortened' B707s. Rather they were -300s. Between Papeete and Mexico City, they transited Acapulco. Also operated via Bermuda in each direction.
Were the 707-138B's used until they were phased out late 60's - or was the Fiesta route the domain of the -338C's?
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 12:20
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Originally Posted by Ken Borough
They were't 'shortened' B707s. Rather they were -300s.
IIRC, not all of Qantas's -138 were the shortened variety, only the first seven.
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 16:36
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The 138B, all of which were short bodied, never did the South Pacific route. That was introduced when we got the 338s.
Original routing from Dec 65 was Sydney Nandi Papeete Acapulco Mexico City Bermuda London. Later Auckland replaced Nandi. Sydney crews operated to Mexico City where the London based crews took over. A weeks slip in Tahiti was hard to take.
Tahitia - Acapulco was usually around 8 hours. Nothing much between the two so hard work for the nav. Extra oxygen fitted to enable cruise at, I seem to remember, 18000ft if there was decompression at ETP.
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 22:02
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Originally Posted by Quietplease
The 138B, all of which were short bodied
No, the final six -138Bs (VH-EBH-M, delivered from 1961 onwards) were long-bodied.

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Old 6th Jun 2019, 04:15
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707-138B - 2 lengths?

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
No, the final six -138Bs (VH-EBH-M, delivered from 1961 onwards) were long-bodied.
Wow - I never knew that the -138B series (which was a standalone type built only for QF, and IIRC shorter than the 720B) had it's own sub-series??

Well I never - do you mean that the last 6 of their order had the same length as a normal -120 series?
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 05:17
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The 741 was USA East Coast only, she also could not do LHR-NBO non-stop either.
Back in BOAC days we flew that sector daily on the 741. Of course the trips in those days were fabulous. Three week trips to OZ and shuttling around the Far East back and forth to SYD/MEL/AKL. One of the best trips I did was a 10 day NBO/MRU trip with a week off in MRU. QF did the same on a 707 SYD/PER/MRU. It was one giant party!!
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 05:26
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Well when I was flying EBH-M in 1965-66 they were short bodied. Think I might have noticed the difference.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 07:10
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Originally Posted by rog747
Wow - I never knew that the -138B series (which was a standalone type built only for QF, and IIRC shorter than the 720B) had it's own sub-series??

Well I never - do you mean that the last 6 of their order had the same length as a normal -120 series?
That was my understanding, but I'm happy to admit that I was mistaken.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 07:18
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short and long -138B's ?

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
That was my understanding, but I'm happy to admit that I was mistaken.
The long and short of it is that I think someone pulled your leg lol
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 08:14
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Originally Posted by rog747
The long and short of it is that I think someone pulled your leg lol
It was a frame-up.
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 12:18
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WellI am sorry my gratuitous remark about the version of 707 involved produced so much debate- i must admit I forgot that QF operated 'normal' 707s as well, I remember the V jet colour scheme-not very colourful compared with later ones. In any event it was a pretty exotic route (i also misplaced Bermuda for Bahamas ) and someone cleared up my uncertainty about getting from MEX most of the way a cross the Pacific from its hot and high location.
And of course Navigators back then , hard work on that sector and on LHR-BDA no doubt.

I wonder what Sr Cruz at BA today would think of a weeks layover in Mauritus ?
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 06:01
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There are some really interesting things on this thread, thank you.

A few points/questions please:

1. rog747 I was intrigued by your mention of flights operating via Burma in your earlier post. It didn't strike me as an obvious calling point for an en-route stop as I thought they were a very isolationist country at the time, and I seem to recall that Rangoon had a short runway. I know I once looked into travelling there at around that time and the visa terms were very restrictive. Do you have any more detail please?

2. Also in the 70s I flew from Heathrow to Malta on an Air Malta Boeing 720B. I'm sure the flight was in excess of 3 hours, so would this put it as mid-haul at the time? I last flew there on a FR 737 from Leeds a couple of years ago, similar timings, but would now certainly put it in the short haul range.

3. Having mentioned it, could someone tell me why the 720B was regarded as being sufficiently different from the 707 so as to have its own designation?

Cheers.

Last edited by BKS Air Transport; 9th Jul 2019 at 16:26.
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Old 9th Jun 2019, 18:01
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In the 60s the navigator was the hard working one on long haul. In Qantas we were lucky enough to have a superb lot, apart from the chief nav who would pass up heading chits with half degree alterations but still got bounced twice going into Honolulu as he was so far off track.
It was astro all the way,and, as so many of our routes were along the ITCZ ,there would often be long periods without a star in sight. Tahiti-Acapulco was night both ways.
The toughest route for the navs was an Electra service Perth Cocos Mauritius Joburg all at much lower levels than the 707 so even less chance of a shot.
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