When do you switch to visual on approach?

[Cralis]

(Not a pilot, so please excuse if I make errors or the question is stupid, but...)

When in clear weather, but performing an ILS approach, is there a specific moment where auto pilot gets disconnected (Maybe dependent on airfield and STAR?), or is it up to the pilot flying or captain, as to when the AP can be disengaged?

And then, when does the pilot flying switch from following the flight director / using the glideslope/localiser indicator, to looking out of the window, and focusing on the PAPI lights? (Or VASI... I hear both names). Basically, when does the pilot 'ignore' the ILS indicators and and 'DIY'?

I'm 44 now, but I recall a wonderful day where I got a full flight, takeoff to landing, in the jump seat, around 25 years ago, and I recall one pilot saying to the pilot flying on approach, 'Watch the glide slope', and the PF answering back with, 'I'm visual'. So it seems there no set point, and it's up to the PF. And he doesn't need to tell the other chap that he's ignoring instruments.
(It was a while back - I'm not sure those were the actual words, but it was the idea of what they were saying).

I hear a callout by the aircraft (I think), saying "Minimums". Maybe that's the point? I've never been sure what that callout means. It sounds scary. And then I think I hear the PF saying "continue". Not sure if this is related.

[Denti]

The callout is automatic and simply reminds one that that is the last time when you have to be able to see the minimum reference to continue or go around. In my outfit we can at any point during the approach call out "visual" and do not need to reply to the minimum call after that. At the minimum you need to have a minimum visual reference, however, if you have only that you will not fly exclusively to that, as that could lead to "ducking below the approach path" which is not really good. So even there it might be a mix of looking inside and outside.

Apart from that. It depends on the airline. In the airlines i have flown for i can and could pretty much disconnect the autopilot at any point during the flight or approach, however, tell your colleague beforehand and take into account the weather, situation and traffic load. Personally i like to switch everything (autopilot, autothrust, flight directors) off around 10.000ft and fly from there regularly. In my previous airline around 60% of all approaches, in my current one quite a bit less, as many colleagues are kinda afraid and unused to flying that way.

In a regular instrument approach through, it depends on the pilot. Some switch the autopilot off when the aircraft is in its final configuration, so around 1000ft to 1500ft above the runway. Others do it earlier. Switching to visual is independent of that, as soon as one can see the runway one can occasionally glance up and check the visual picture, the lower you get the more you look outside and less inside, on short final its pretty much exclusively outside and not much inside. I would disregard the PAPI below latest 200ft as they are adjusted for the eye height for the pilots in the biggest plane flying into that airport, and my lowly A320 is usually smaller, so it would lead me too far down the runway. Rather check out the touchdown zone marker and land on that. So the switching to visual is not something one does at a certain point, but rather a gradual process of shifting from looking on the screen to looking outside. At first only sometimes, then more and more until almost completely, with just the occasional glance inside for speed control. I would suppose that it is much easier with a HUD as both are superimposed in direct field of view, only did that once in a simulator and that was during my initial type rating on a 737, many many years ago.

[Cralis]

Thanks for that, Denti.

So the minimum call is to confirm you can see the runway (The whole thing, or just your touch down reference point)?
If, at that call, you're unable to see what you need, it's the indication that you now need to decide to go around?
And if you had called "visual" before, it indicates you can see the runway and therefore, the minimum call, or more so, the "continue" call is redundant right?

Thanks again.

[Chesty Morgan]

There is also such a thing as minimum use height (MUH) by which point the autopilot must be disconnected.

It varies by type but for single channel ILS approaches on the 737-800, for example, MUH is defined as 158' ARTE.

[Denti]

Originally Posted by Cralis

Thanks for that, Denti.

So the minimum call is to confirm you can see the runway (The whole thing, or just your touch down reference point)?
If, at that call, you're unable to see what you need, it's the indication that you now need to decide to go around?
And if you had called "visual" before, it indicates you can see the runway and therefore, the minimum call, or more so, the "continue" call is redundant right?

Thanks again.

What you have to be able to see depends on the type of approach. But no, never the whole runway, the book talks about the required visual reference, which can be simple parts of the approach lights, or some runway markings. Basically the minimum call is the last point where you can decide to land or go around, it is a reminder of that.

Yes, but that "visual" call is a company structure. In previous companies i have worked for there was a different call, so it is airline specific or it might not exist at all. By the way, when i was on the 737 the call to continue was "land", to make clear that that was the intention. On the bus that is not possible as there is a FMA (Flight Mode Annonciation) "LAND" which has to be called out (under certain circumstances) and therefore another call was needed, which turned out to be "continue".

[BusBoy]

On all types I have flown the call is "continue"
"Land" suggests you're committing to a landing, "continue" leaves you receptive to a go around, even after touch down.

Expect the go around, it's a nice surprise to land

[Denti]

I guess you are right in a way. As usual, it depends on the SOP designers. The justification behind the "Land" call was that it was only made when it was assured that there were no visibility reasons preventing to land, of course a balked landing can still always happen for whatever reasons. But although those do happen and anyone has to be ready for them, they are after all so rare we have to train them in the simulator to experience them at all. Had one in about 20 years of commercial and over 30 years of flying in total.

[Chesty Morgan]

It's all just mouth music BS the end of the day. I mean are you really dwelling on what you said 200' ago to the point of ignoring something else.

Are you really going to land if you shouldn't just because you said land 30 seconds earlier?

Is continue any better? I shall continue regardless 🙄

Why not just grunt?

You could even say go around and then land if you can say land and then go around.