BA Delay due wrong map
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BA Delay due wrong map
British Airways flight from London to New York grounded in Ireland after engineers download the wrong map
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/284521...the-wrong-map/
Bungling BA engineers assumed the New York-bound BA1 flight was headed for Europe as it was a small A318 Airbus
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By ELLIE FLYNN
12th February 2017, 1:11 pm
A BRITISH Airways business class plane was left stranded in Ireland after engineers downloaded the wrong map.
Bungling BA engineers assumed the New York-bound BA1 flight was headed for Europe as it was a small A318 Airbus.
A British Airways plane was stranded in Shannon after engineers downloaded the wrong map
But the plane was actually the all-business London City – JFK service that runs once a day.
It is the only A318 that makes the transatlantic crossing.
The flight stops in Ireland to fuel up and for passengers to pre-clear US immigration before heading on to New York.
But on Friday pilots stopped off in Shannon, Ireland and realised only Europe maps had been loaded on the aircraft.
Crew tried to download the correct mapping data but were unable to, leaving a couple of dozen passengers stranded in Shannon.
The airline put customers up in a hotel overnight and the New York flight was finally en route the following day
While stuck on the ground in Shannon, one passenger said: “Trying to find a way to explain this rather funny situation!!…
“We can’t fly back to city as we have too much fuel, we can’t fly to JFK as we have no map… So we are all stranded in Limerick Ireland!!!”
A British Airways spokesman said: “We apologised to customers and provided them with accommodation following an overnight delay to their flight.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/284521...the-wrong-map/
Bungling BA engineers assumed the New York-bound BA1 flight was headed for Europe as it was a small A318 Airbus
Exclusive
By ELLIE FLYNN
12th February 2017, 1:11 pm
A BRITISH Airways business class plane was left stranded in Ireland after engineers downloaded the wrong map.
Bungling BA engineers assumed the New York-bound BA1 flight was headed for Europe as it was a small A318 Airbus.
A British Airways plane was stranded in Shannon after engineers downloaded the wrong map
But the plane was actually the all-business London City – JFK service that runs once a day.
It is the only A318 that makes the transatlantic crossing.
The flight stops in Ireland to fuel up and for passengers to pre-clear US immigration before heading on to New York.
But on Friday pilots stopped off in Shannon, Ireland and realised only Europe maps had been loaded on the aircraft.
Crew tried to download the correct mapping data but were unable to, leaving a couple of dozen passengers stranded in Shannon.
The airline put customers up in a hotel overnight and the New York flight was finally en route the following day
While stuck on the ground in Shannon, one passenger said: “Trying to find a way to explain this rather funny situation!!…
“We can’t fly back to city as we have too much fuel, we can’t fly to JFK as we have no map… So we are all stranded in Limerick Ireland!!!”
A British Airways spokesman said: “We apologised to customers and provided them with accommodation following an overnight delay to their flight.”
Last edited by Longtimer; 12th Feb 2017 at 20:27.
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They still appear to be totally screwed up on this A318 flagship flight number. 
They took off out of Shannon at about 1450Z. Then they held at the oceanic boundary for 90 minutes before starting the crossing at FL 350.
Now, they are going into Gander, maybe for fuel. Or perhaps for directions.
Will the crew have duty time left to go to JFK today? Or will this be a two-layover crossing LCY-SNN-YQX-JFK?
Time to spare go by air...
Take a look:
https://www.flightradar24.com/BAW1/c70629b
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...445Z/EINN/CYQX
They took off out of Shannon at about 1450Z. Then they held at the oceanic boundary for 90 minutes before starting the crossing at FL 350.
Now, they are going into Gander, maybe for fuel. Or perhaps for directions.
Will the crew have duty time left to go to JFK today? Or will this be a two-layover crossing LCY-SNN-YQX-JFK?
Time to spare go by air...
Take a look:
https://www.flightradar24.com/BAW1/c70629b
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...445Z/EINN/CYQX
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What?!
Oh,come,on.
If they mean that the EFB did not have the right charts, Just send jepp. plates to the local ground handler, print them out and off you go!
And if the airports are not in the FMCdatabase, well, ask vectors and programme the necessary points if needed as a reference.
Oh,come,on.
If they mean that the EFB did not have the right charts, Just send jepp. plates to the local ground handler, print them out and off you go!
And if the airports are not in the FMCdatabase, well, ask vectors and programme the necessary points if needed as a reference.
Just send jepp. plates to the local ground handler, print them out and off you go!
And if the airports are not in the FMCdatabase, well, ask vectors and programme the necessary points if needed as a reference.
And if the airports are not in the FMCdatabase, well, ask vectors and programme the necessary points if needed as a reference.
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I don't fully buy the reason behind the delay but I do respect the decision not to fly and the PR machine coming clean about the wrong data being loaded in the aircraft. These are the actions of a proper airline.
Not quite as far-fetched as it sounds.
The LCY-based A318 in question had been on maintenance at Heathrow for three weeks before positioning to City on Friday morning to operate the lunchtime BA001 departure.
Presumably the charts would have been loaded by BA engineers at LHR who see an A318 on average about once a year.
The LCY-based A318 in question had been on maintenance at Heathrow for three weeks before positioning to City on Friday morning to operate the lunchtime BA001 departure.
Presumably the charts would have been loaded by BA engineers at LHR who see an A318 on average about once a year.
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Some points needed to be clarified here.
1.The FMGC database was for Europe instead of Europe/N.America.
2. This incident was last week
3. The second post mentioning 90 minutes holding west of SNN is for tonight's BA1 SNN-JFK, which is currently en-route to CYQX for reasons as yet, unexplained.
Whoever posted the Flight Radar links, thanks but wrong thread!
It wasn't the wrong 'charts' last week. BA pilots have up to date charts (LIDO) via their iPad. It was the FMGC.
Top pprune
guys!!
1.The FMGC database was for Europe instead of Europe/N.America.
2. This incident was last week
3. The second post mentioning 90 minutes holding west of SNN is for tonight's BA1 SNN-JFK, which is currently en-route to CYQX for reasons as yet, unexplained.
Whoever posted the Flight Radar links, thanks but wrong thread!
It wasn't the wrong 'charts' last week. BA pilots have up to date charts (LIDO) via their iPad. It was the FMGC.
Top pprune
guys!!
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Looks like BA1 is now going into St. John's, vectors to ILS 11.
BA1 says a fuel stop, no assistance required, just check with maintenance about some things.
BA1 says a fuel stop, no assistance required, just check with maintenance about some things.
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Yes. But no one appeared to be explaining that the 2 events (YQX/YYT diversion and 'wrong map') were unconnected. Which, is rather important don't you think?
But thanks for that Dave.
But thanks for that Dave.
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Yep, so the plane with the bad database went to JFK yesterday. This is a different aircraft that didn't make it to JFK out of SNN on the first try. Thanks for the correction. 
I don't even have a dateline on this side of the world to blame it on.
Today's arrival in YYT seems to be unplanned, the plane and the tower are trying to figure out who is handling the plane and whether customs and immigration are required. The duty manager is making some calls to try to sort out the diversion. After checking the tower says it looks like Air Canada is going to do the handling. Air Canada says they had absolutely no notice about the arrival until the tower called to say that the plane was on the ground.
I don't even have a dateline on this side of the world to blame it on.
Today's arrival in YYT seems to be unplanned, the plane and the tower are trying to figure out who is handling the plane and whether customs and immigration are required. The duty manager is making some calls to try to sort out the diversion. After checking the tower says it looks like Air Canada is going to do the handling. Air Canada says they had absolutely no notice about the arrival until the tower called to say that the plane was on the ground.
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Flight status
BA0001 - Shannon to YYT
Arriving Sunday 12 February
Last updated: 21:44 GMTRefresh page
Flight diversion
We’re very sorry, this flight scheduled from Shannon to New York, has been diverted to St Johns.
BA0001 - Shannon to YYT
Arriving Sunday 12 February
Last updated: 21:44 GMTRefresh page
Flight diversion
We’re very sorry, this flight scheduled from Shannon to New York, has been diverted to St Johns.
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BA1 airborne again, YYT-JFK. They called Air Canada ops and thanked them for the efficient fueling and turn, said they wish it was that way in London. 
Last edited by Airbubba; 12th Feb 2017 at 23:59.
RIght Engine
Thanks for clarifying matters, the subsequent debate does indicate how times have changed.....
....I suspect the phrase "FMGC/FMS database" isn't cuddly enough for the PR and jurno types so they've used "maps" as a shorthand....and off we've gone on a classic Pprune tangent.
FWIW as has been mentioned the BA crew iPad(s) are personal issue, have nowt to do with engineering or the engineers and contain a worldwide database of airports and charts.. so regardless of what was done to the airframe the crew themselves will have had so many electronic maps and airfield plates on board that could have plotted a route to Hawaii if they so wished, it sounds to me like the problem was with where the aircraft itself could legitimately and sensibly go.
Chris S, I'm an FMS rather than a FMGC user, but I'm guessing the crew may well have been able to load lat/longs for the ocean and construct airways, again using lat/longs etc. However if they only had a European database loaded in the FMGC they won't have had any US navaids, SIDS and STARS, instrument approaches, possibly even the airport position in the database, and that can get very limiting these days, not just from a navigation POV but it can also impact aircraft systems (e.g only a possibility for the bus but based on another type there can be implications for EGPWS, pressurisation)..... I know there will no doubt be further comment about the youth of today along the lines of "When I was a lad I used to fly the Canarsie upside down, all engines out," but for example you can't legitimately "hand build " the likes of the increasingly common RNAV STARS and RNAV approaches in the FMGC or FMS...they have to be extracted from the database.
So please Gents don't blame it all on the youth of today, even those ""youths" like myself who are over 60, who started on paper charts, Dalton computers and the 1 in 60 rule back in the day; times have changed and these days you really are very limited if the aircraft "box" isn't loaded properly.
Thanks for clarifying matters, the subsequent debate does indicate how times have changed.....
....I suspect the phrase "FMGC/FMS database" isn't cuddly enough for the PR and jurno types so they've used "maps" as a shorthand....and off we've gone on a classic Pprune tangent.
FWIW as has been mentioned the BA crew iPad(s) are personal issue, have nowt to do with engineering or the engineers and contain a worldwide database of airports and charts.. so regardless of what was done to the airframe the crew themselves will have had so many electronic maps and airfield plates on board that could have plotted a route to Hawaii if they so wished, it sounds to me like the problem was with where the aircraft itself could legitimately and sensibly go.
No criticism of the guys involved, but it does seem a shame if the powers-that-be now prevent a crew from using a computer flight-plan to construct a route in the FMGS using Lat/Long-defined waypoints on NAT Tracks and then airways - like we used to do before the advent of FMS.
So please Gents don't blame it all on the youth of today, even those ""youths" like myself who are over 60, who started on paper charts, Dalton computers and the 1 in 60 rule back in the day; times have changed and these days you really are very limited if the aircraft "box" isn't loaded properly.
Last edited by wiggy; 13th Feb 2017 at 13:28.
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the 1 in 60 rule back in the day; times have changed
I still use it in B737 TR training when asking the students what their drift angle might be in various cross winds. They look aghast, yet they've come from spam cans. What are they teaching these days. Basic physics doesn't change with time.
Recently had a pilot student ask me what a sextant was ?
Could be an incestuous relative and get you into a heap of trouble.
I know this is a slight drift, but amusing. In the early days of LNAV & NAT tracks one guy, when inside the NAT system, called up to say he had an FMC failure. It was daylight VMC and he was west bound. ATC asked if he could see an XYZ a/c 1000' above him and possibly 5nm ahead. Yes they could. Well he's going to the same airport as you so follow him. Job done.
I still use it in B737 TR training when asking the students what their drift angle might be in various cross winds. They look aghast, yet they've come from spam cans. What are they teaching these days. Basic physics doesn't change with time.
Recently had a pilot student ask me what a sextant was ?
Could be an incestuous relative and get you into a heap of trouble.
I know this is a slight drift, but amusing. In the early days of LNAV & NAT tracks one guy, when inside the NAT system, called up to say he had an FMC failure. It was daylight VMC and he was west bound. ATC asked if he could see an XYZ a/c 1000' above him and possibly 5nm ahead. Yes they could. Well he's going to the same airport as you so follow him. Job done.
Thank you wiggy #23.
To all the oldies; yes, yes, but would you actually want to go back to using charts and sextants or manual chokes on your cars, or no remote control for your TV's etc??
We had this database situation on some of our Airbusses a few years back. It arises because there is not enough memory in the FMGC to hold all the required databases, so we had to load Europe Central and East, or Europe Central and West, depending where we were going.
Ridiculous in this day and age, but the real question for me is why extra or larger capacity memory chips cannot simply be plugged in by the engineers like some of us do with our PC's or laptops.
To all the oldies; yes, yes, but would you actually want to go back to using charts and sextants or manual chokes on your cars, or no remote control for your TV's etc??
We had this database situation on some of our Airbusses a few years back. It arises because there is not enough memory in the FMGC to hold all the required databases, so we had to load Europe Central and East, or Europe Central and West, depending where we were going.
Ridiculous in this day and age, but the real question for me is why extra or larger capacity memory chips cannot simply be plugged in by the engineers like some of us do with our PC's or laptops.