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Avoiding action

Old 8th Jun 2002, 20:48
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Avoiding action

If ATC said those words to you what would you do ? An intersting debate on the ATC thread at Avoiding action
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Old 8th Jun 2002, 21:36
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I'd do whatever they told me - and fast
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Old 8th Jun 2002, 21:55
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Exclamation

Thanks for the link - very interesting (and worrying!). I will mention it to our comms instructor to be emphasised to students. But tell me - I take it max rate turn with pax is not the same as in a Firefly or Bulldog - stand it on its wing and pull to the buffet? That would spill the G&Ts
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Old 8th Jun 2002, 22:55
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It does!

I've not taken it as far as that - but to about 60 degrees of bank.
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Old 9th Jun 2002, 01:30
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huggy The old 22 arrival versus the 04 departure!! heheh
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Old 9th Jun 2002, 02:10
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Well, as an ex USAF ATC from the Upper Heyford RASZ (does anyone remember that?) I know what "avoiding action" is. (for my US colleagues "avoiding action" is a UK ATC turn that means turn NOW, and FAST!!!)

I was flying a VP registered 727 into Stansted a few years back and was around 3,000' AGL, IMC, when the call came: "VP-XXX pop up traffic 12 o'clock less than one mile AVOIDING ACTION turn right heading XXX"

You can believe I now know why we do steep turns in the sim every six months.

Never before had I ever banked more than 30 degrees in an airliner (intentionally, that is) and never expected to.

By if a UK controller ever gives me "avoiding action" again, I will do it immediately.

My bank was more than 45 but less than 50 degrees, and because it was done with superior skill and pure adrenilin, the boss never noticed.

At least that's my story...
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Old 9th Jun 2002, 03:50
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Clowns--Re:avoiding spilling the G&T's--if you get into the g's fast enough, they should remain in the glass. And, for that matter, the glass should remain in place on the tray table.

Might overstress the FA's wonderbras, though... TC
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Old 9th Jun 2002, 07:34
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It did!
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Old 9th Jun 2002, 08:26
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Hitting the other guy tends to spill the G&Ts too...
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Old 9th Jun 2002, 11:53
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The problem is, AA717, that when I say "stand on its wingtip" I mean literally - 90 AOB. Load factor 1/cos AOB then becomes infinite. Edging a 260 hp two-seater on the point of stall is fun (and possible, briefly with lots of top rudder), but it is impossible to balance!

Huggy

Great! How do I persuade ATC to give me that instruction when I get to fly big aircraft
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Old 9th Jun 2002, 14:02
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It's Called "Stay'n Alive."

In the U.S. a controller would probably make a shorter statement, such as: "...immediate right turn!"

That means: turn right now! ..instinctively, without thought or analysis. Minumum 30 degree bank, effecting a heading change of at least 30 degrees. The controller's tone of voice and volume would determine the severity of the bank angle beyond 30 degrees.
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Old 9th Jun 2002, 14:23
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Smile

In the U.S. the controller would more likely say " er.. contact (next frequency) goodbye!"
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Old 11th Jun 2002, 18:34
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Avoiding Action

To FINDO and others who are visiting this subject. There is a UK Aeronautical Information Circular, No 100/2000, (Pink 12, I think it is) entitled, "Avoiding Action - What this Instruction Should Mean to Pilots".

This AIC addresses 'Expected Response to 'Avoiding Action'' and so should help answer the question!
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Old 11th Jun 2002, 19:08
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Slightly "bending" the topic
I remember chatting to the BA Bac111 "display pilot", and he was chafing at the bit to do a Barrel Roll during a display
The thought being that it was, and I quote him here...
"A positive G manoever, at less than One G"
Or, the Pax would know nowt, until the peeps on the ground showed them the photies
The B707 did it......as did the Vulcan.....
It can't be any worse than trundling over the Alps at 17000ft in a DC7C
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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Old 14th Jun 2002, 17:05
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Saw the Rockwell B.1 do a barrell roll last year. Big bird too.
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Old 16th Jun 2002, 15:27
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Send clowns

"Great! How do I persuade ATC to give me that instruction when I get to fly big aircraft "


Get within a few miles of military pop up traffic and I'll give you the instuction!!!!
If I use the term it means turn now or you possibly wont come out the other side in one piece. As for if the G&T is split do you really care?? I know I dont!
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Old 17th Jun 2002, 14:06
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Chiglet

Dear Chiglet,

There may only be one big bump at 17000ft over the alps in a DC7C as the MSA is 18000ft (depending on temperature, it goes up to 20000ft).

Sorry, I had to.....................................

Cheers DLN
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Old 17th Jun 2002, 14:17
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In the Mt. Blanc area of course
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Old 17th Jun 2002, 16:18
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DLN,
Yes, yes I know. I should have said FL230[ish].
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy
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