BA Pilot ATC Incident at DUB
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Had it recently with another BA in Nice who was blocking the runway ahead of me, by liningup in slow-Mo. Slower then parking on stand. Didn't trad Back t/o clearance 3 times, then was blaming a technical problem, which can happen. After which another minute of conpleting checks followed.
This seems to happen regularly with BA as I have heard And experienced behind them!
Maybe its cultural, where their acars loadsheets make it seem "normal" to not be ready while blocking a runway or holdingpoint.
This seems to happen regularly with BA as I have heard And experienced behind them!
Maybe its cultural, where their acars loadsheets make it seem "normal" to not be ready while blocking a runway or holdingpoint.
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Do BA incorporate single engine taxying? Maybe it wasn't the cabin, maybe it was a late starting of the second engine. Easy to know on a turboprop but almost impossible to detect on jet. When my company started single engine taxi procedures we were pressured all the time by atc at a London airport to get it started. When it was pointed out to them that virtually every aircraft taxying to the hold are on one engine, including the orange brigade etc, their response was "oh are they?" They can see the props not rotating, but not the jets. Do the engines on BA's 319/320s need 2 minutes after start for thermal stabalisation?
On a separate note, yes I've pushed back at the same time as an orange airbus only for them to call for taxi with the tug attached to get ahead of us, and also had them parked next to us and they've seen our doors close up and airbridge removed only for them to call for push and start with their airbridge still attached.
On a separate note, yes I've pushed back at the same time as an orange airbus only for them to call for taxi with the tug attached to get ahead of us, and also had them parked next to us and they've seen our doors close up and airbridge removed only for them to call for push and start with their airbridge still attached.
As I said earlier, he was also asked very explicitly TWICE by the previous controller if he was ready and gave ambiguous answers before he was even handed over to tower. This is not on the youtube clip. I was operating on the same frequency at the time.
We may have all fluffed it at little once or twice as might ATC (starting a landing clearance with a wind as an aircraft vacates) but this was a lot more than this.
It wasn't a world stopping event but all thr Nigels on Europe could really do with getting out of the habit of blocking holding points and runways whilst waiting for load data/cabin secure. As a general rule if you see Nigel pushing just before you, have some intersection figures ready.
We may have all fluffed it at little once or twice as might ATC (starting a landing clearance with a wind as an aircraft vacates) but this was a lot more than this.
It wasn't a world stopping event but all thr Nigels on Europe could really do with getting out of the habit of blocking holding points and runways whilst waiting for load data/cabin secure. As a general rule if you see Nigel pushing just before you, have some intersection figures ready.
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Posted by Caulfield :
As ex ATC I'd say the most sensible post so far. The thread should now be closed.
My verdict:over-zealous ATCO with a touch too much sarcasm from old Nigel.But its still a storm in a teacup and not worthy of further consideration.
e28 driver
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At a UK regional airport not known for very efficient ATC if they asked me at the holding point if I was 'ready', and I had 30 seconds to go until the second engine was ready (2 mins after start) I would tell them I was because if I didn't they would instruct me to hold and clear an aircraft at 5 miles to land. Is that wrong when I know that it will take at least 30 seconds to enter the runway and complete the lineup checklist before applying take off thrust?
Where exactly does pregnancy come into it Mr A and C?
That YouTube clip seems like it has been edited to discredit the BA crew. I think you really would need to know where the aircraft actually was when the 'vacate the runway' calls were made. If as I suspect they hadn't actually entered it then all these calls for them to be burnt at the stake for not vacating when instructed fall down a bit. And she did decide to make her point when they were probably doing their lineup checklist which is not ideal. I do think that some here are blowing this out of proportion.
Where exactly does pregnancy come into it Mr A and C?
That YouTube clip seems like it has been edited to discredit the BA crew. I think you really would need to know where the aircraft actually was when the 'vacate the runway' calls were made. If as I suspect they hadn't actually entered it then all these calls for them to be burnt at the stake for not vacating when instructed fall down a bit. And she did decide to make her point when they were probably doing their lineup checklist which is not ideal. I do think that some here are blowing this out of proportion.
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Assuming I've correctly managed to attach the image, it seems from the chart, IMHO, that E1 begins after the Cat 1 hold and that it is Link 1 up to that point. A and B2, on the other hand, are charted with the taxiway designation before their hold lines. I would therefore think that "checks below the line" would take place after crossing the Cat 1 hold onto E1 as there is no turning back at that point. Unless of course you're ordered to vacate via 16/34 in which case it wouldn't seem that much of a big deal to simply comply with the ATC instruction. You don't wait until you're lined up to go below the line on any plane that I've flown, none of which was an Airbus. Sort of no huge deal but enough cringe factor after hearing the exchange to know it wasn't good.
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The lady ATC officer was far from cranky. Rupert's (or Nigel's?) arrogance shines through.
2. Here we are xx years and "Nigel" still being used in banter love it
3. Yes more Rupert than Nigel
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We may have all fluffed it at little once or twice as might ATC (starting a landing clearance with a wind as an aircraft vacates)
BTW line up on the runway and then tell me to stand by you had better have a really good reason when in Hi-intensity runway ops. Not that the ATCO covered themselves in glory according to the truncated recording but the BA would not have departed for me and vacated followed by an MOR.
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Can someone just explain for me please:
It's 06:08 when Maeve clears BA825 to "line up AND WAIT." prior to that, she's just blathering on about an a/c behind him who may (or may not?) be ready. So until that point, he isn't occupying the runway.
At 07:43 he departs. Would have been earlier except for the numerous lengthy lectures he receives from 'motormouth' WHILST HE IS LINING UP!
Two things occur to me: Firstly that's appalling controlling. Secondly: Even accepting that this is DUB, and very odd things happen there, two go-arounds in such a period is just a lie, isn't it!
It's 06:08 when Maeve clears BA825 to "line up AND WAIT." prior to that, she's just blathering on about an a/c behind him who may (or may not?) be ready. So until that point, he isn't occupying the runway.
At 07:43 he departs. Would have been earlier except for the numerous lengthy lectures he receives from 'motormouth' WHILST HE IS LINING UP!
Two things occur to me: Firstly that's appalling controlling. Secondly: Even accepting that this is DUB, and very odd things happen there, two go-arounds in such a period is just a lie, isn't it!
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I've seen the same thing at Nice, BA ordered off the runway in the end; off we went. I've never seen this from another airline, coincidental or is there strong OTP or other pressure at BA? Another poster has seen the same at Nice. It seems bizarre to call ready for departure when not.
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Happens fairly regularly in EDI too. They taxi all the way to A1 or D1 and THEN state that they're 'Waiting for their figures' which blocks the main line-up point for the runway. Nigel, if you're NOT ready tell ATC before you get to the 'loop' so that everyone behind you can pass and depart on schedule. It's not Rocket Science 
Waiting for figures is not the crews problem they have no choice, it is BA's they need to be told to stop the procedure.(sometimes you expect the cabin secure & it doesn't come say due a pax suddenly standing up, communicating the like takes time) As for ATC hassle, well wonder how the controller would have felt should the birdseed have taken off with say wrong flap set and crashed with loss of life etc. I'm sure the AAIB would have sited the hassle as a factor. Sometimes you just have to "suck it up" and shrug as hassling crew just prior to departure is a recipe for mistakes to be made.
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As for ATC hassle, well wonder how the controller would have felt should the birdseed have taken off with say wrong flap set and crashed with loss of life etc. I'm sure the AAIB would have sited the hassle as a factor. Sometimes you just have to "suck it up" and shrug as hassling crew just prior to departure is a recipe for mistakes to be made.
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Ice Pack, exactly. The question should be why it takes sometimes in excess of 20 mins to get the final figures. Sitting there anxiously waiting doesn't do a lot for the operating crew either. They should be thinking about where they are right now and in the next little while. Not whether someone at LHR is or isn't doing their job and whether there is anyone they can call or ACARS to find out what is going on... Again.
I have also noticed BA taking a very long time after push-back to get ready for taxi, even blocking a cul-de-sac whilst doing so. Is this part of the "waiting for the numbers" game?