Paying for an interview??
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While sympathising with the head PRuNers for needing advertising revenue it seems a shame to me that they continue to advertise this shameful company. Surely solidarity and a bit of Pilot's self-help could start with these sharks being dumped from our forum's advertising?
Then people could perhaps start concentrating on all the other horror stories we hear coming from the MO machine...
Then people could perhaps start concentrating on all the other horror stories we hear coming from the MO machine...
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whats all this 'we are professionals and should not pay'? Airlines don't exist for the benefit of pilots. If the company can get away with this charge it will do so, only supply and demand will ultimately affect their behaviour not respect for a 'profession' for which their is precious little anyway.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: earth
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Read not Judge
Dear Carruthers,
Directly replying to your post, Airlines exist because there are PROFESSIONAL PILOTS insuring the safety of their customers. If we did not exist nor would the airline. If you had read my post very carefully then you would have noted that i did not chastise airline companies for partaking in such practises. They are a business and will do anything to make a profit. My posts were aimed at upcoming young Professional pilots who can stop playing by the rules of these ridiculous companies and stop them from paying these fees. If no one pays, airlines will run out of applicants and then pilots. Which would then force them to rethink their hiring policies. So i am affraid you are replying to a subject you have very little knowledge about.
Pilots ARE professionals and that point is easily justified. You can not ask an individual from the street to jump in the flight deack of any aircraft and ask them to deliver 1 or 450 passengers from point A to B safely, if at all. This point is true of Lawyers, CEO's and management staff of any corporation all of who are considered professionals. No individual without proper training or experience would be able to competently do their job, thus the people possessing such skills in these positions are consider professionals.
ALL pilots are professionals and thus desire the respect which is due to them. So dear carruthers next time you are on board an aircraft, make the realisation that the individuals in control of that flight (the professional flight crew) have your life in their hands, so a little respect is what they command from you.
Cheers,
AC100.
Directly replying to your post, Airlines exist because there are PROFESSIONAL PILOTS insuring the safety of their customers. If we did not exist nor would the airline. If you had read my post very carefully then you would have noted that i did not chastise airline companies for partaking in such practises. They are a business and will do anything to make a profit. My posts were aimed at upcoming young Professional pilots who can stop playing by the rules of these ridiculous companies and stop them from paying these fees. If no one pays, airlines will run out of applicants and then pilots. Which would then force them to rethink their hiring policies. So i am affraid you are replying to a subject you have very little knowledge about.
Pilots ARE professionals and that point is easily justified. You can not ask an individual from the street to jump in the flight deack of any aircraft and ask them to deliver 1 or 450 passengers from point A to B safely, if at all. This point is true of Lawyers, CEO's and management staff of any corporation all of who are considered professionals. No individual without proper training or experience would be able to competently do their job, thus the people possessing such skills in these positions are consider professionals.
ALL pilots are professionals and thus desire the respect which is due to them. So dear carruthers next time you are on board an aircraft, make the realisation that the individuals in control of that flight (the professional flight crew) have your life in their hands, so a little respect is what they command from you.
Cheers,
AC100.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AC100 Restaurants wouldn't exist without cooks or Bordellos without whores. Do me a favour, you are not above the laws of supply and demand, your skills are not particularly rare or obviously held in much regard. Train drivers are also responsible for their passengers’ lives, usually more than you.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At least fifteen years ago I answered an advert in Flight International, by a Canadian agency, for type rated B737 pilots.
Heard no more from the agency but a few weeks later received the full application form for South West Airlines and they required either $20 or $40 to process it!!!
Things haven't changed much.
Heard no more from the agency but a few weeks later received the full application form for South West Airlines and they required either $20 or $40 to process it!!!
Things haven't changed much.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: earth
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Carruthers,
You show how limited your knowledge of the business world and lack of awarness of how professionals are deemed professionals. To begin with, train drivers and chefs at restuarants, to my knowledge, do not pay for the privillage of having their C.V's reviewed or obtaining an interview. I certainly have not heard of any ladies of the night having to pay their customers to consider their services or have sex with them.
Your limited knowledge of anything keeps refering you to "supply and demand". Well my misinformed and bitter friend you will have to find some better arguments in order to rattle my cage or any other professional pilots, who you seem to keep putting down.
No disrespect intended to train drivers, but keeping a train on a set of railway tracks from London to Glasgow does not require the amount of training as ia pilot requires to operate an aircraft from point A to B. The simply fact is that airlines need professionl pilots"demand" and there are quailified professional pilots out there"supply" but in no other profession, yet, have young inexperienced individuals have been willing to pay to get a job. In the process they are laying the foundation for mistreatment and lack of respect from their employer in the future.
So i will make this one last attempt of allowing you to read and understand that your arguement of "supply and demand" is a weak one. But you seem to have made a name for yourself on this forum board as the last couple of post indicate and i guess your trying to live up to your name. Goodluck to you.
AC100
You show how limited your knowledge of the business world and lack of awarness of how professionals are deemed professionals. To begin with, train drivers and chefs at restuarants, to my knowledge, do not pay for the privillage of having their C.V's reviewed or obtaining an interview. I certainly have not heard of any ladies of the night having to pay their customers to consider their services or have sex with them.
Your limited knowledge of anything keeps refering you to "supply and demand". Well my misinformed and bitter friend you will have to find some better arguments in order to rattle my cage or any other professional pilots, who you seem to keep putting down.
No disrespect intended to train drivers, but keeping a train on a set of railway tracks from London to Glasgow does not require the amount of training as ia pilot requires to operate an aircraft from point A to B. The simply fact is that airlines need professionl pilots"demand" and there are quailified professional pilots out there"supply" but in no other profession, yet, have young inexperienced individuals have been willing to pay to get a job. In the process they are laying the foundation for mistreatment and lack of respect from their employer in the future.
So i will make this one last attempt of allowing you to read and understand that your arguement of "supply and demand" is a weak one. But you seem to have made a name for yourself on this forum board as the last couple of post indicate and i guess your trying to live up to your name. Goodluck to you.
AC100
Last edited by ac100; 16th Jun 2002 at 04:08.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: wherever I lay my hat...
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be fair to MO'L, the £50 fee is to deter time-wasters from applying. In a previous life, I was part of a team given responsibility for sorting out applicants resulting from a series of ads we had in FI. We received over 10,000 applications and sent out plenty of documentation (at around a fiver a pack), but I reckon a good 95% of those were either not returned or returned by completely unsuitable people just chancing it despite what it said in the ad and again in the pack. Out of the 100 or so viable people we ended up giving 7 jobs if my memory serves me right.
If we had charged £50 'processing fee' you can bet your bottom dollar that the vast majority of the 9,500 timewasters wouldn't have applied ... and those that did would have covered the expenses of doing so.
If we had charged £50 'processing fee' you can bet your bottom dollar that the vast majority of the 9,500 timewasters wouldn't have applied ... and those that did would have covered the expenses of doing so.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ac100
I don't think that encouraging young (or old for that matter) aspiring flight deck crew to tell airlines that ask them to pay for interview where to go and to sit it out is going to help them very much. I agree that it is a greedy way of making money but if it needs to be done, do it I say.
If you sit it out, say what, another year (market's picking up alright, but not that quickly) and then apply to some airline - one of the main things they'll ask is, well what have you done for the past year. And what you've done is not apply to an airline for the sake of a few quid and possibly missed out on a job. I'm not saying that paying for an interview will get you the job, you have to do that in the interview - but not paying for it will gaurantee that you don't get the job. It's a risk to take. If you want a job, take it.
And anyway - wasn't the original question of this post referring to Malgus?
I don't think that encouraging young (or old for that matter) aspiring flight deck crew to tell airlines that ask them to pay for interview where to go and to sit it out is going to help them very much. I agree that it is a greedy way of making money but if it needs to be done, do it I say.
If you sit it out, say what, another year (market's picking up alright, but not that quickly) and then apply to some airline - one of the main things they'll ask is, well what have you done for the past year. And what you've done is not apply to an airline for the sake of a few quid and possibly missed out on a job. I'm not saying that paying for an interview will get you the job, you have to do that in the interview - but not paying for it will gaurantee that you don't get the job. It's a risk to take. If you want a job, take it.
And anyway - wasn't the original question of this post referring to Malgus?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: earth
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Lemon,
I understand your point of view and i agree that an individuals past employment record will be discussed in an interview. But i have to state the fact that respectable airlines look at the whole package. I know several individuals who were out of currency for a year and a half after their pervious employer went bankrupt and were employed by one of the top ten airlines in the world at the time. the are still there.
the question is one of patience. My whole arguement is based on the fact that on other professional group has such practice. This then leads to the fact that airlines knowing that their employees are willing to go to these lengths will then inevitably treat their employees with the same disrespect and mistreament as they started with. Once again i can not hold the airline management responsible, they are a business and will try anything to make money. However it should not be done at are expense of pilots especially when we don't even work for them.
Eventually aspiring pilots, young or old, will get hired and be treated with the respect they deserve. As i have said in my previous post....I do not suffer, as i have established myself in this profession, and done so by not having take advantage of me i might add, the people who will suffer is the aspiring pilots themselves. They have there whole careers ahead of them and they are laying the foundation of mistreatment and disrespect for themselves. You will get jobs it is just a matter of time. Be patience and get what you deserve. Cheers
AC100
I understand your point of view and i agree that an individuals past employment record will be discussed in an interview. But i have to state the fact that respectable airlines look at the whole package. I know several individuals who were out of currency for a year and a half after their pervious employer went bankrupt and were employed by one of the top ten airlines in the world at the time. the are still there.
the question is one of patience. My whole arguement is based on the fact that on other professional group has such practice. This then leads to the fact that airlines knowing that their employees are willing to go to these lengths will then inevitably treat their employees with the same disrespect and mistreament as they started with. Once again i can not hold the airline management responsible, they are a business and will try anything to make money. However it should not be done at are expense of pilots especially when we don't even work for them.
Eventually aspiring pilots, young or old, will get hired and be treated with the respect they deserve. As i have said in my previous post....I do not suffer, as i have established myself in this profession, and done so by not having take advantage of me i might add, the people who will suffer is the aspiring pilots themselves. They have there whole careers ahead of them and they are laying the foundation of mistreatment and disrespect for themselves. You will get jobs it is just a matter of time. Be patience and get what you deserve. Cheers
AC100
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I take your point in that patience will be rewarded but in this industry patience sees other people getting jobs while you're being patient (and I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about aspiring pilots with frozen ATPL's).
And I'm OK - I have a job and no, I didn't pay for the interview.
And I'm OK - I have a job and no, I didn't pay for the interview.
Guest
Posts: n/a
A most reasonable series of posts from ac100. Why can't people see that paying money to the likes of Ryanair is the thin end of the wedge?
Sadly there are some out there who will degrade our profession to achieve their own selfish aims.
Having said that, I'd still rather be a pilot than a bitter wannabee making a fool of myself in a forum such as this.
Sadly there are some out there who will degrade our profession to achieve their own selfish aims.
Having said that, I'd still rather be a pilot than a bitter wannabee making a fool of myself in a forum such as this.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have to keep demanding respect and to be treated like a professional then I suspect that neither is forthcoming. Professions such as medicine law etc don't run vitriolic forums such as this, don't have to demand respect, don't have to pay for CV's to be processed. They have professional associations and bodies and are self regulating, we have trade unions!! Need I say more. I consider it extremely smug to say I'm OK Jack but you have patience and don't pay for it belittles my 'profession'.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: earth
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Seriph,
You are absolutely correct in saying that other professional bodies regulate themselves and thus do not allow such practices as you and i have mentioned from taking place.
Once again, people reading these forums do not take the time to read each post carefully before forming their opinions on the subject presented. You mention the smugness of, i am assuming, my post. Well, it was clearly stated that if aspiring pilots continue on the path they are, they will be the ones effected by the lack of respect and mistreatments by their employer in the future. I have nothing personally to gain by speaking my mind on the matter.
Aspiring pilots out there deserve better. By continuing to allow employers to treat them this way will make their life less enjoyable.
I am not demanding respect or treatment as a professional. The company i work for has that aspect covered very well. In fact, every company i have worked for has given myself and my colleagues the treatment they deserved as porfessionals. I hope to stir enough self respect amoungest aspiring pilots so that their lives are as enjoyable as mine has been in this profession. I have nothing to gain by saying all that i have. I have also been in the situation where i was not working and needed to pay bills at home etc, but i did not go out and pay for a job. I have been there as all aspiring pilots have and we have all got through it. As all aspiring pilots will. I would not suggested something if i had not done it or if i was not willing to do myself.
It is a shame that people are not reading but speaking without cause or positive replies. I see that the industry is filling up with very negative thoughts. Mostly aimed at fellow pilots and not the gulity parties. I wish you all luck in your future endeavours as i will now refrain from posting on this forum. My posts on this subject have been quite clear. They have only been put there to encourage and improve the future treatment of future aviators. I not willing to partake in this deluge of negative comments on this forum...incredebly counter productive. Cheers
AC100
You are absolutely correct in saying that other professional bodies regulate themselves and thus do not allow such practices as you and i have mentioned from taking place.
Once again, people reading these forums do not take the time to read each post carefully before forming their opinions on the subject presented. You mention the smugness of, i am assuming, my post. Well, it was clearly stated that if aspiring pilots continue on the path they are, they will be the ones effected by the lack of respect and mistreatments by their employer in the future. I have nothing personally to gain by speaking my mind on the matter.
Aspiring pilots out there deserve better. By continuing to allow employers to treat them this way will make their life less enjoyable.
I am not demanding respect or treatment as a professional. The company i work for has that aspect covered very well. In fact, every company i have worked for has given myself and my colleagues the treatment they deserved as porfessionals. I hope to stir enough self respect amoungest aspiring pilots so that their lives are as enjoyable as mine has been in this profession. I have nothing to gain by saying all that i have. I have also been in the situation where i was not working and needed to pay bills at home etc, but i did not go out and pay for a job. I have been there as all aspiring pilots have and we have all got through it. As all aspiring pilots will. I would not suggested something if i had not done it or if i was not willing to do myself.
It is a shame that people are not reading but speaking without cause or positive replies. I see that the industry is filling up with very negative thoughts. Mostly aimed at fellow pilots and not the gulity parties. I wish you all luck in your future endeavours as i will now refrain from posting on this forum. My posts on this subject have been quite clear. They have only been put there to encourage and improve the future treatment of future aviators. I not willing to partake in this deluge of negative comments on this forum...incredebly counter productive. Cheers
AC100
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 1,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boycott 'em.
It will not be long before I'm in the position of applying for jobs and have to say I'd never pay for an interview and the sooner these airlines are stopped the better. I blame the applicants for this situation. Why pay it? It is a pi$$ take of the highest order and just goes to show that some people would do anything to get in the right hand seat. I dare say some might even "drop 'em" for the recruitment team if they knew a job would be waiting. Sort it out!
VFE.
VFE.
Last edited by VFE; 24th Jun 2002 at 21:21.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well VFE you have a choice, sit on your principles or get a job. The pay will quickly refund your costs. Why does everyone see this as yet another tilt at the 'prestige and standing' of pilots? Everything is so personal, I think you'll find that Mr O Leary et al have more important matters in mind than the fragile ego's of pilots. They are running the business, and if they can weed out serious applications in this way and meet their targets then they will do so.
Guest
Posts: n/a
....Well VFE you have a choice, sit on your principles or get a job...
Sorry but the number of people who have paid to have an interview in the industry are a minority. So how did the other do in order to get a job then ? I am very curious Clio Toros so perhaps you could display some of your knowledge and enlighten us all
Never paid, never will (not talking about my speeding tickets)
Sorry but the number of people who have paid to have an interview in the industry are a minority. So how did the other do in order to get a job then ? I am very curious Clio Toros so perhaps you could display some of your knowledge and enlighten us all
Never paid, never will (not talking about my speeding tickets)