China Airlines B747 Crash (Merged)
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
5 posts above, AND a couple of pages back, Rice Whine, this was one of the possibilities floated by 
when "an encounter with severe weather" was mentioned.
Regardless of age, severe turbulence can have catastrophic effects on airframes and occupants, as controllability of the aircraft, in any of it axes, is almost certainly impossible.
when "an encounter with severe weather" was mentioned.Regardless of age, severe turbulence can have catastrophic effects on airframes and occupants, as controllability of the aircraft, in any of it axes, is almost certainly impossible.
>posted by Rice Whine
Well??<
Expect to be reimbursed for WAGs after you have provided suffcient supporting facts and confirmed by real investigators.
We no longer reimburse for simple passing references, wet dreams and inuendos not supported by analysis or facts.
Well??<
Expect to be reimbursed for WAGs after you have provided suffcient supporting facts and confirmed by real investigators.
We no longer reimburse for simple passing references, wet dreams and inuendos not supported by analysis or facts.
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Firehorse
I don’t think I agree with you. Seems to me that there is a lot of capability not requested by the Chinese. Several countries who have both the expertise and equipment could have been on the
scene the week of the accident, and using robotics, underwater submersibles, and personnel, the flight recorders could already be at the labs. Given the extend time of the abnormality shown by the radar, the recorders should shed considerable information on what happened, making their recovery a number one priority. Like the ocean, it is beginning to smell fishie.
I don’t think I agree with you. Seems to me that there is a lot of capability not requested by the Chinese. Several countries who have both the expertise and equipment could have been on the
scene the week of the accident, and using robotics, underwater submersibles, and personnel, the flight recorders could already be at the labs. Given the extend time of the abnormality shown by the radar, the recorders should shed considerable information on what happened, making their recovery a number one priority. Like the ocean, it is beginning to smell fishie.
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Rumor....Rumor....anyone heard that the ROCAF (Republic of China Air Force) is missing an F-5 since the day of the accident? There is a rumor floating about a head on with a ROCAF F-5 (which would explain some debris moving opposite direction of radar track). I know, we should just wait and see, but...........
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Firehorse
Thank you for the reply. With respect, the recovery phase of this should have been straight forward. There is unfortunately history to fall back on, and proven procedural methods to aid in
recovery. Two of recent come to mind immediately. If the recovery process is driven out of concerned for (granted, very important) public relations, then the approach is erred to begin with. Body and personal effects recovery should be and remain totally divorced from those activities associated with the investigation. I admit that is a cold way to look at it, but life goes on. Lets be thankful that they have at least recovered one of the recorders, and hope that they will be sucessful with the other.
747FOCAL
Care to enlighten us on what you “are hearing,” and from what source?
Thank you for the reply. With respect, the recovery phase of this should have been straight forward. There is unfortunately history to fall back on, and proven procedural methods to aid in
recovery. Two of recent come to mind immediately. If the recovery process is driven out of concerned for (granted, very important) public relations, then the approach is erred to begin with. Body and personal effects recovery should be and remain totally divorced from those activities associated with the investigation. I admit that is a cold way to look at it, but life goes on. Lets be thankful that they have at least recovered one of the recorders, and hope that they will be sucessful with the other.
747FOCAL
Care to enlighten us on what you “are hearing,” and from what source?
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Reuters Company News
Taiwan recovers second black box of crashed jet
By Angus Chuang
TAIPEI, June 19 (Reuters) - Taiwan navy divers recovered on Wednesday the second "black box" from the China Airlines ews) jet that broke up in mid-air and crashed into the sea last month, killing 225 people, the Aviation Safety Council said.
Retrieval of the Boeing 747-200's watertight flight data recorder, which logs flight information, could help investigators determine why the Hong Kong-bound plane broke into four pieces at 30,000 feet (9,000 metres) and crashed into the Taiwan Strait.
The box was found on the sea floor about 300 metres (1,000 feet) from the cockpit voice recorder recovered on Tuesday, said safety council spokeswoman Tracy Jen.
"The two black boxes appeared largely intact, but it remains to be seen if the data is complete," Jen said.
"We hope to find out tiny bits of detail about what happened to the plane minutes before it broke up. It's the recorders' turn to speak."
Investigators have said, even with the recovery of the black boxes, it might take a year to determine the cause of the disaster -- the carrier's fourth fatal accident since 1994. Together, the accidents have claimed more than 650 lives.
Aviation experts have floated several theories for the crash, including metal fatigue, an internal explosion, a mid-air collision or a military accident.
U.S. experts who investigated the mid-air explosion of a Trans World Airlines Boeing 747 off New York in 1996 are in Taiwan to help investigate the crash.
The two recorders would be brought back to Taiwan from Penghu island, near the crash site, later on Wednesday for analysis, Jen said, adding that it would take about a week to find out the contents.
ANGRY RELATIVES
The data recorder from the older-generation Boeing 747-200 may not have gathered as much flight information as newer models, but its recovery was still crucial to the investigation, she said.
Grieving relatives have vented their anger at the government and the airline for both the carrier's poor safety record and for delays in recovering bodies from the May 25 crash.
Taiwan and foreign salvage teams have so far recovered 123 bodies and some 10 percent of the 23-year-old aircraft, which crashed about 20 minutes after takeoff from Taipei.
The chairman and eight other board members of the state-controlled China Aviation Development Foundation, which owns 71 percent of China Airlines, resigned last month in the wake of the accident.
The awkward ownership structure of the carrier -- the government appoints a majority of the board members of the foundation -- has been widely blamed for paralysing management and making safety reforms almost impossible.
The airline's shares have slid around one fifth since the crash. On Wednesday, China Airlines shares were down 0.77 percent at T$12.85 by 0223 GMT, in line with a 1.93 percent fall in Taiwan's main TAIEX (Taiwan:^TWII - News) index.
Taiwan recovers second black box of crashed jet
By Angus Chuang
TAIPEI, June 19 (Reuters) - Taiwan navy divers recovered on Wednesday the second "black box" from the China Airlines ews) jet that broke up in mid-air and crashed into the sea last month, killing 225 people, the Aviation Safety Council said.
Retrieval of the Boeing 747-200's watertight flight data recorder, which logs flight information, could help investigators determine why the Hong Kong-bound plane broke into four pieces at 30,000 feet (9,000 metres) and crashed into the Taiwan Strait.
The box was found on the sea floor about 300 metres (1,000 feet) from the cockpit voice recorder recovered on Tuesday, said safety council spokeswoman Tracy Jen.
"The two black boxes appeared largely intact, but it remains to be seen if the data is complete," Jen said.
"We hope to find out tiny bits of detail about what happened to the plane minutes before it broke up. It's the recorders' turn to speak."
Investigators have said, even with the recovery of the black boxes, it might take a year to determine the cause of the disaster -- the carrier's fourth fatal accident since 1994. Together, the accidents have claimed more than 650 lives.
Aviation experts have floated several theories for the crash, including metal fatigue, an internal explosion, a mid-air collision or a military accident.
U.S. experts who investigated the mid-air explosion of a Trans World Airlines Boeing 747 off New York in 1996 are in Taiwan to help investigate the crash.
The two recorders would be brought back to Taiwan from Penghu island, near the crash site, later on Wednesday for analysis, Jen said, adding that it would take about a week to find out the contents.
ANGRY RELATIVES
The data recorder from the older-generation Boeing 747-200 may not have gathered as much flight information as newer models, but its recovery was still crucial to the investigation, she said.
Grieving relatives have vented their anger at the government and the airline for both the carrier's poor safety record and for delays in recovering bodies from the May 25 crash.
Taiwan and foreign salvage teams have so far recovered 123 bodies and some 10 percent of the 23-year-old aircraft, which crashed about 20 minutes after takeoff from Taipei.
The chairman and eight other board members of the state-controlled China Aviation Development Foundation, which owns 71 percent of China Airlines, resigned last month in the wake of the accident.
The awkward ownership structure of the carrier -- the government appoints a majority of the board members of the foundation -- has been widely blamed for paralysing management and making safety reforms almost impossible.
The airline's shares have slid around one fifth since the crash. On Wednesday, China Airlines shares were down 0.77 percent at T$12.85 by 0223 GMT, in line with a 1.93 percent fall in Taiwan's main TAIEX (Taiwan:^TWII - News) index.
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I understand your skepticism. Can you tell me that you are actually out there floating around helping look for wreckage? Although I will admit when I was first told, I thought to myself how would you ever find any part of a small fighter after smashing into a 747 and then going in the ocean? 
The Reverend
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747 man, I hope you will have the integrity to say "sorry, I was wrong", when the facts are finally revealed. There is no evidence whatsoever of a midair collision with a military fighter. However, if that is proven, I'll beat you to it with an apology. I have been in aviation too long to jump to conclusions without adequate proof of opinion. Cheers, HD.
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I can see admitting I was wrong, but why the need for an apology? It's not like I ranted and stepped all over everybody's dignity with unprofessional comments aimed at embarassing a single person or group. But, if it is real important to you Yes I am big enough to admit fault and apologize.
The Reverend
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I wouldn't read too much into the ISM being found strapped to his seat. It's a very short sector from Taipei to Hong Kong, he could well have been doing his necessary paperwork strapped into his seat or could have been adjacent to his seat when the upset commenced and had the opportunity to sit down and strap himself in. Best wait for the FDR results.
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Any word on the status/condition of the FDR-CVR? Has it reached the lab yet? If the FDR is the same vintage as the aircraft, I guessing there are just a few parameters recorded....does anyone know what type of FDR?..........It's been very quiet.....