Petition to Allow Listening to ATC in the UK
The problem as I perceive it is that someone may hear a transmission which is perfectly innocent, misinterpret it, and report the details to the 'press', subsequently causing a minor problem to be reported as a life threatening event. This has happened many times in the past, and will continue to happen.
It's the media who need to be restrained from reporting things until they have received confirmation that something has happened.
It's the media who need to be restrained from reporting things until they have received confirmation that something has happened.
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Capot,
To continue on from Chevvron, one might envision an emergency situation or incident where the ATCO (or pilot) was indentifiable from their voice.
Perhaps in this hypothetical incident sadly some lives were lost.
Grief stricken and angry, some of the relatives may well consider acting outside of the law to get revenge.
Purely hypothetical, but an incident with a similar sad ending has occurred.
Obviously that's at the extreme end, but still...........
To continue on from Chevvron, one might envision an emergency situation or incident where the ATCO (or pilot) was indentifiable from their voice.
Perhaps in this hypothetical incident sadly some lives were lost.
Grief stricken and angry, some of the relatives may well consider acting outside of the law to get revenge.
Purely hypothetical, but an incident with a similar sad ending has occurred.
Obviously that's at the extreme end, but still...........
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It happened to that Swiss ATCO. 
Having been told over the last couple of days some incredible rubbish which I was assured was the truth I can only concur with those who feel that the very least which should happen is that the law regarding the passing of information overheard should be applied stringently and huge fines and or imprisonment doled out to the guilty parties. If what I was told had been passed on to the media it could have caused utter mayhem. I have no intention of repeating what I was told so please do not email or send me a pm.
Having been told over the last couple of days some incredible rubbish which I was assured was the truth I can only concur with those who feel that the very least which should happen is that the law regarding the passing of information overheard should be applied stringently and huge fines and or imprisonment doled out to the guilty parties. If what I was told had been passed on to the media it could have caused utter mayhem. I have no intention of repeating what I was told so please do not email or send me a pm.
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Damn! I was willing to sign this purely because it would annoy Heathrow Director, who in-turn annoys me with his constant belittling replies, almost anywhere on this forum.
Back to my scanner ^
Back to my scanner ^
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flydive1: Precisely, he was most certainly NOT identified by the perpetrator from his r/t transmissions.
22 Degree Halo: It is indeed sad that HD, a retired ATCO and once (or maybe still) a spotter has become increasingly hostile towards spotters on this forum. Of course he's factually correct about the law, but his response:
is condescending and a waste of tax payers money.
22 Degree Halo: It is indeed sad that HD, a retired ATCO and once (or maybe still) a spotter has become increasingly hostile towards spotters on this forum. Of course he's factually correct about the law, but his response:
The idea is presumably that of misguided persons who are just interested in their own warped interests. What is really needed is for those committing such breaches to be prosecuted.
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Flydive1, No, nobody is saying that. However, my fear is that if the law ceases to exist, the mainstream media will be free to replay RT just as they seem to do with 911 calls in the USA. Maybe something might happen one day where the newspapers or TV news crews might want to try and talk to the ATCO/pilots involved. Perhaps even offer money to anyone who knows the identity of those involved? I would suggest that that is not a good situation, and does not lend itself to maintaining safety.
In the current situation, enthusiasts listen in and not very much gets out to the wider world. Why change it?
In the current situation, enthusiasts listen in and not very much gets out to the wider world. Why change it?
Last edited by Gonzo; 28th May 2013 at 19:53.
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I think all of the examples given are at the extreme end and quite exceptional. If it was all so hush hush then certain people ought not to be reminiscing quite so much on the ATC thread having signed the Official Secrets Act. The intention was plainly to stop you blabbing about what you got up to back in less open days but yet the stories continue to be told on a public forum?
Why? Because there's no harm in it and people enjoy hearing them. Now, perhaps there's an analogy.
I agree that there is however a rather odd subset, more so on airliners.net, who seem to get off on 7700 sqawks and compete to be the first to post as if there was a competition. Of course that may come from software monitering as well. Nought so queer as folk.
Why? Because there's no harm in it and people enjoy hearing them. Now, perhaps there's an analogy.
I agree that there is however a rather odd subset, more so on airliners.net, who seem to get off on 7700 sqawks and compete to be the first to post as if there was a competition. Of course that may come from software monitering as well. Nought so queer as folk.
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This isn't about Official Secrets, indeed nobody signs the Act anymore, I didn't when I joined (news just in; everyone in the UK is liable for prosecution under the Official Secrets Act, not just those who have 'signed it'. I haven't signed the Road Traffic Act yet can still be caught for speeding).
There are certain ATC procedures that have a security aspect. We are not taking about those here. Nobody involved 'blabs' about them.
There are certain ATC procedures that have a security aspect. We are not taking about those here. Nobody involved 'blabs' about them.
In the current situation, enthusiasts listen in and not very much gets out to the wider world. Why change it?
The petition is a misguided attempt to change the law to make something legal that nobody ever gets prosecuted for doing anyway. I'd say that the status quo represents a wonderful example of the UK's admirably pragmatic approach to law enforcement.
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FROM A SPOTTER
HI
Ive been Spotting since i was able to see vertually and some
of the recieving Equipment very Odd often Homebuilt but worked
.Ive never Had any trouble because watch what I say to who I say it.
I Dont like or approve of people Asking or posting Emergency Situations
as something big and we need to read about them we dont thankfully
most are something and nothing am sure this goes for most Spotters.
Talking to the press is another no no for most Spotters or anyone who
Asks to many Questions and many would report anyone asking to much.
Dont think anything needs changing other than being more careful
of what we say we need to be aware of what could happen in the
wrong hands like Social media watch your Mouth.
Spotters the Majority are decent people helpful and really are grateful
what we see from the Aviation World if we can help we will .
Tony
a farnborough spotter
Ive been Spotting since i was able to see vertually and some
of the recieving Equipment very Odd often Homebuilt but worked
.Ive never Had any trouble because watch what I say to who I say it.
I Dont like or approve of people Asking or posting Emergency Situations
as something big and we need to read about them we dont thankfully
most are something and nothing am sure this goes for most Spotters.
Talking to the press is another no no for most Spotters or anyone who
Asks to many Questions and many would report anyone asking to much.
Dont think anything needs changing other than being more careful
of what we say we need to be aware of what could happen in the
wrong hands like Social media watch your Mouth.
Spotters the Majority are decent people helpful and really are grateful
what we see from the Aviation World if we can help we will .
Tony
a farnborough spotter
Last edited by Gulf4uk; 28th May 2013 at 20:48.
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In my place of work everybody signs the Official Secrets Act - whether that's necessary or not is another matter.
Anyone else find it annoying that presumably grown adults have nothing better to do than whine about plane spotters, and fellow professionals, listening to airband radios ? Some would be better off learning how to spell the word professional !
Anyone else find it annoying that presumably grown adults have nothing better to do than whine about plane spotters, and fellow professionals, listening to airband radios ? Some would be better off learning how to spell the word professional !
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If it was just a case of "What's heard in this room, stays in this room" then I would ask what's all this fuss about.
I note one poster refers to a shop on the A4 selling radios, well if you are referring to the one East of Heathrow near the Master Robert Motel as it so happens I worked there for 7 years behind the counter and sold hundreds of radios. Never in that time, to my knowledge, did anyone say to the owner that what we were promoting was illegal. Nor was there any concern when radios build for the military UHF transmissions came out.
The reasons for this radio listening hobby are likely to be many and various. I myself used to use a radio to figure out what was arriving at an airfield to figure out if it was worth staying there with the camera or moving on to somewhere busier, call that ambulance chasing if you want.
No I can't understand the "emergency chasers" either but in this day and age of the modern media its going to get into the system somehow. I do note that with the BA incident last week that no-one seems to have made any reference to any comms heard, a remark also made in the thread about it.
I note one poster refers to a shop on the A4 selling radios, well if you are referring to the one East of Heathrow near the Master Robert Motel as it so happens I worked there for 7 years behind the counter and sold hundreds of radios. Never in that time, to my knowledge, did anyone say to the owner that what we were promoting was illegal. Nor was there any concern when radios build for the military UHF transmissions came out.
The reasons for this radio listening hobby are likely to be many and various. I myself used to use a radio to figure out what was arriving at an airfield to figure out if it was worth staying there with the camera or moving on to somewhere busier, call that ambulance chasing if you want.
No I can't understand the "emergency chasers" either but in this day and age of the modern media its going to get into the system somehow. I do note that with the BA incident last week that no-one seems to have made any reference to any comms heard, a remark also made in the thread about it.
Following on from what Gonzo says about mainstream media replaying RT; what's to stop them editing the soundtrack so the listeners hear what the media wants them to hear and not a true sequence/version of events.
We have a law that (as I understand it) doesn't prevent one listening to radio transmissions; it does prevent one sharing them/publishing/using the content within them without the appropriate authority.
Seems to work.
Doesn't stop the media listening in; does prevent them actually using it. If anyone becomes aware something out of the ordinary is happening via a radio scanner, they still have to get the info from whomever is able/entitled to release such info before going "to air" with it. And they still can't use the radio clip in a broadcast, nor refer to it in the item.
Not the same in the UK?
Seems to work.
Doesn't stop the media listening in; does prevent them actually using it. If anyone becomes aware something out of the ordinary is happening via a radio scanner, they still have to get the info from whomever is able/entitled to release such info before going "to air" with it. And they still can't use the radio clip in a broadcast, nor refer to it in the item.
Not the same in the UK?
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Listening in
I don't have too much of an issue with people listening to my ATC comms, if it is of interest to them either as a hobby or even professionally. A few years ago I occasionally used to park up for half an hour or so and watch a few movements where a few spotters with receivers were hanging around and it was interesting...to a point.
In reality, I suspect that flying around Europe, people are listening a fair amount of the time anyhow and thats fine when all is going well.
On the other hand...what I do object to are those who listen, record and potentially broadcast emergency situations. In the event of a major incident, I really wouldnt want my final transmissions being recorded and replayed on youtube by some geek looking to make money out of it ( with links from the UK gutter press). I dont want my family having to suffer that. It would be unacceptable and I wouldnt want that for any professional in any similar situation. On the basis of generally slipping standards of behaviour, I believe that the law in the Uk probably serves a good purpose as it stands and offers some protection.
In reality, I suspect that flying around Europe, people are listening a fair amount of the time anyhow and thats fine when all is going well.
On the other hand...what I do object to are those who listen, record and potentially broadcast emergency situations. In the event of a major incident, I really wouldnt want my final transmissions being recorded and replayed on youtube by some geek looking to make money out of it ( with links from the UK gutter press). I dont want my family having to suffer that. It would be unacceptable and I wouldnt want that for any professional in any similar situation. On the basis of generally slipping standards of behaviour, I believe that the law in the Uk probably serves a good purpose as it stands and offers some protection.
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This has to be one of the funniest yet, at the same time, most serious threads of a long while.
The spotters are so funny, indeed ridiculous, that they just don't get that, just sometimes, a level of confidentiality is required whilst the spotters become even funnier, indeed ridiculous, because they're just not getting "it" that the aviation professionals are trying to get across to them.
Perhaps the professionals should get back to flying aeroplanes and the spotters get back to jerking off (without audio) watching them flying their aeroplanes!
The spotters are so funny, indeed ridiculous, that they just don't get that, just sometimes, a level of confidentiality is required whilst the spotters become even funnier, indeed ridiculous, because they're just not getting "it" that the aviation professionals are trying to get across to them.
Perhaps the professionals should get back to flying aeroplanes and the spotters get back to jerking off (without audio) watching them flying their aeroplanes!
PF............
I have not found anything particularly amusing in this thread but certainly have found offence in your crude utterances. As others have suggested, if you have problems being civil to fellow forumites, spotters in particular, perhaps best not to visit this thread.
Planemike
I have not found anything particularly amusing in this thread but certainly have found offence in your crude utterances. As others have suggested, if you have problems being civil to fellow forumites, spotters in particular, perhaps best not to visit this thread.
Planemike