'Hero' passenger helps land plane

[Capn Bloggs]

In the event that my assisting pilot (also known as first officer) became incapacitated...unlocking the flight deck door may encourage any would be terrorists on board to attempt a hijacking.

Perhaps a disciplinary or even dismissal is needed for this so-called captain.

Remind me to steer clear of your outfit...

Is there anybody on board who didn't have the fish?!

[DaveReidUK]

DUB is an excellent choice for such situations as from his office MOL can test his idea of 'taking out the second pilot and letting the computer fly it'.

Just the second pilot ? Don't be silly, by now MOL has probably read this post:

Can ground operations in any way control the aircraft?

[DX Wombat]

The hero thing the press put out is over the top but what else do you expect?

Especially when they are probably trying to wipe the egg off their faces after the Radio Amateur fiasco and divert people's attention elsewhere.

[Capn Bloggs]

this section does not limit the emergency authority of the pilot in command to exclude any person from the flight deck in the interests of safety.

We're talking about including the pax on the flight deck to help out.

[Left Coaster]

Groundloop...Denny Fitch was mentioned because his actions were heroic...the guy in this thread was a "helper"... Not a Hero...Although I'd be willing to wager he might be a little embarrased at being tagged as one by the media!

[Lukeafb1]

Without wading through the whole thread, in case I'm duplicating another post, I notice that none of accompanying photos on the myriad of articles on this 'dire emergency' actually shows a 747. There are many assorted other aircraft, but no 747s. Don't journos know what one looks like, or will anything with wings do? I'm looking forward to the first Jetranger photo (well, it is an aircraft isn't it?).

[DaveReidUK]

If it were a U.S. incident, he would also be in the CASS, thus ensuring he's legit.

Not necessarily, according to the criteria in your previous post:

In the U.S. there is CASS (Cockpit Access Security System). Any airman jump-seating or dead-heading on a plane is required to log on to to CASS

Judging from the reports, the individual in question was travelling, off-duty, as an ordinary fare-paying passenger. At any rate he clearly wasn't in uniform or readily identifiable as an airline pilot until he made himself known to the crew.

So, if it had been a US airline and the captain had been playing it by the book, the guy would never have made it onto the flight deck - for better or for worse.

[DX Wombat]

1 Don't journos know what one looks like, or 2 will anything with wings do?

1 - Quite possibly not
2 - Yes, usually, saves them having to think too hard.

[wiggy]

So, if it had been a US airline and the captain had been playing it by the book, the guy would never have made it onto the flight deck - for better or for worse.

Worrying (isn't it?)

Call me old fashioned and maybe I'm missing something but surely all this learned discussion about the likes of "para 6.9 (iii) subparagraph x, sub-sub para y" is still trumped by Rule One, the one that goes something along the lines of "...the captain will make whatever decisions need making and take whatever actions need taking in order to achieve a safe outcome to the flight...."

yours

"Old Fashioned"

[DaveReidUK]

no matter if a pilot is flying off duty (jump-seating) or on duty (dead-heading)

OK, I guess we were divided by a common language.

I had taken your reference to jump-seating to mean just that - sitting on the jump seat, which our guy clearly wasn't doing, nor dead-heading on duty travel.

But any professional aviator, even when paying a full fare ticket, makes his presence known because he knows there might be an emergency and his services might be required.

Yes, it would be good to think that was the case.

[highflyer40]

I'm sorry, but who goes around introducing themselves as pilots everytime they fly on their own dosh? I'd be mortified as toe it would look like trying to curry favour.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Of course, again, we're talking about Europe, with different sets of rules and regulations, I realise that, but i cannot think of any airman who wouldn't notify the captain about his presence on the aircraft before the flight.

Wow! Just shows the gulf of comprehension that exists across the Atlantic. I suppose just occasionally someone sticks his head round the door and says "hello, I'm with XXXX how are you guys doing" but that's in the same spirit as pilots passing in a hotel lobby.
I can't think of anyone who would notify the captain that he was on board in the snese you're referring to. Been flying commercial for 20 years and never come across even a reference to this before. First I've ever heard of it. Sorry, doesn't happen in Europe. At all. You'd be flagged to the entire crew as an utter weirdo if you did, that's for sure. That really would be pure Walter Mitty territory.

[highflyer40]

you keep mentioning deadheading or jump seating. what if a bloke and his family are just going on holidays? would you still introduce yourself? if someone did that on my flight I would pretty much think they were pretty far up their own ass!

[Agaricus bisporus]

I hadn't realised the US jumpseat system was so formalised. What a wonderful thing it would be to have that in Europe. Although we can position while on duty - and that doesn't mean commuting home - on our own airline without a ticket; have to be ticketed at all other times.

For our US cousins info this can't happen here for various reasons. The punitive passenger taxes in Eu make it illegal to carry pax without paying it and that can only be done by purchasing a ticket. Airside access via your id card when not on duty would be taken very seriously indeed so can't be done - there is no other way through without a ticket. Very few airline would carry another's crew foc anyway when they could be taking money for a ticket, indeed the feeling in my company is that they'd rather take money off us than give us a ticket. No doubt there are companys that turn a blind eye to pilots travelling on the buckshee, but in the PC-crazy egalitarian-obsessed UK the idea that pilots might have 'privilege" (a word with almost foul connotations these days) unavailable to the ground staff would be highly contentious. That's the joy of the stifling dead hand of the Eu.

[paull]

Bigger Risk than you think.

Someone said 'what is the risk that Walter Mitty just happens to be hanging around waiting for someone to get sick?'

Probably pretty slim, but if you asked me to arrange for the F/O to be slipped something in his coffee so that I could get access to the flightdeck I could do it. All you need is:
1- Know were the crew usually stay
1a- probably even check with them "hey guys are you the ones flying me back to Frankfurt?
2- An accomplice in the kitchen, or to be fairly sleight of hand.
3- A drug with some delayed effect - pretty simple to get right for a long flight.

Like I said before if you choose someone to let into the flight deck then the odds are heavily on your side. If THEY get to choose, beware!

F/O Sick AND loony on board, normally say (1/10000) x (1/100)

In my scenario its (1/1) x (1/1) and even a one-man terrorist organisation should be able to pull that off. After-all if you don't manage to administer the drug, try again tomorrow, provided you have an open ticket it does not even cost you any extra!

[wiggy]

2- An accomplice in the kitchen, or to be fairly sleight of hand.

I think I might have spotted the one tiny flaw in your cunning plan Most crewmembers are to tight to pay hotel rates for food, so you'd better plan on to staking out every McDs, stalk the crew from Diner to diner, or worse still source their source of food for Delsey dining.

[fyggy]

didn't the report say it was migraine ?

[SLFguy]

"Originally Posted by Mayday Hit Birds

In the event that my assisting pilot (also known as first officer) became incapacitated, I would definitely NOT summon external assistance from outside of the flight deck due to the obvious tragedies which were a direct consequence of the September 11th attacks. A captain should be fully capable of handling the flight on his own and unlocking the flight deck door may encourage any would be terrorists on board to attempt a hijacking.

Perhaps a disciplinary or even dismissal is needed for this so-called captain.

MHB
A340 Driver"

Has there been some ninja deleting of posts?

[aer lingus]

The F/O suffered a severe migrane attack. The off duty pilot was 747 rated, not sure if he was company.

[DaveReidUK]

Has there been some ninja deleting of posts?

Yes, after the wannabe flier was outed he either deleted all his posts himself, in various threads, or it was done for him. All that's left are a few quotes in other posters' responses to his.