Robinson Helicopters
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: northants
Age: 66
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Robinson Helicopters
Nearly everyday on Aviation Safety Network there is a Robinson Helicopter crash usually with Fatalities.
How are these choppers given a permit to fly,what are the CAA,FAA,manufacturers doing about it?
There must be something radically wrong in the design and/or engine.
What does it take to stop this slaughter?
How are these choppers given a permit to fly,what are the CAA,FAA,manufacturers doing about it?
There must be something radically wrong in the design and/or engine.
What does it take to stop this slaughter?
Well, there are a lot of them about, they are relatively cheap and so built like an eggbox. They are more unforgiving of mistakes than many, if not most helicopters but none of that comes into the certification standards which deem them safe. So nothing needs to be done.
You volunteer to get into a Crapinson Flimsycopter, no one makes you do it.
Its up to you. If others choose to use them and you don't, get over it. It isn't your problem.
You volunteer to get into a Crapinson Flimsycopter, no one makes you do it.
Its up to you. If others choose to use them and you don't, get over it. It isn't your problem.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: northants
Age: 66
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok I can understand your point of view that they are toy choppers.this still does not answer my valid question of why so many accidents,surely there is something inherently wrong with the type.
It becomes my problem when they fly near my home quite frequently.
It becomes my problem when they fly near my home quite frequently.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by fustall
Nearly everyday on Aviation Safety Network there is a Robinson Helicopter crash usually with Fatalities.
With some 10,000 built they are bound to show up in the statistics.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: northants
Age: 66
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Correct me if i'm wrong,but your figures don't add up to all the Robinson types ie R22,R44,R22 alone has 504 occurences.
I did not state a particular type I stated Robinson Helicopters
And I did not state this year figures!
I did not state a particular type I stated Robinson Helicopters
And I did not state this year figures!
Last edited by fustall; 21st Sep 2012 at 17:01.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but your figures don't add up to all the Robinson types ie R22, R44. R22 alone has 504 occurences.
That's one occurrence roughly every 14 days, and slightly less than one fatal accident per month.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by fustall
Correct me if i'm wrong,but your figures don't add up to all the Robinson types ie R22,R44,R22 alone has 504 occurences.
Originally Posted by fustall
I did not state a particular type I stated Robinson Helicopters
Originally Posted by fustall
And I did not state this year figures!
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fustall - there is nothing "inherently wrong with the type", merely that this particular type is favoured by flying schools as both a trainer and SFH aircraft. As one who gained their PPL on the R22 I can tell you now a helicopter is a tricky beast at the best of times, but such a basic model as this is a challenge as it is raw flying at its best.
I was always told "fly the helicopter defensively as it is not a forgiving aircraft", and this is particularly pertinant with the Robinson brand as it is somewhat basic. However, because it is cheap to fly and lease it must be accepted that there will appear to be a higher than average number of incidents because it is quite likely there will be an inexperienced pilot involved.
But please don't be too judgemental on Robinson as, whilst they may appear almost comical to look at, they are a joy to fly, and I for one I relished my time on the R22.
I was always told "fly the helicopter defensively as it is not a forgiving aircraft", and this is particularly pertinant with the Robinson brand as it is somewhat basic. However, because it is cheap to fly and lease it must be accepted that there will appear to be a higher than average number of incidents because it is quite likely there will be an inexperienced pilot involved.
But please don't be too judgemental on Robinson as, whilst they may appear almost comical to look at, they are a joy to fly, and I for one I relished my time on the R22.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: northants
Age: 66
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
G-UNYT
Thank you for a meaningful response to my concern of the number of incidents with this make of helicopter,been rather short in coming from others
Simple question asked and all you get is quote...quote...quote!
Maybe they did not know the answer so ranted and raved
Then you came along with experience of the chopper
appropriate name
and hey presto an answer.
Thanks again G-UNYT
NB: not aimed at ALL the other posters,just some!
Would anyone like one to fall on their head!!
Thank you for a meaningful response to my concern of the number of incidents with this make of helicopter,been rather short in coming from others
Simple question asked and all you get is quote...quote...quote!
Maybe they did not know the answer so ranted and raved
Then you came along with experience of the chopper
appropriate nameand hey presto an answer.
Thanks again G-UNYT
NB: not aimed at ALL the other posters,just some!
Would anyone like one to fall on their head!!
Thank you for a meaningful response
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by fustall
Simple question asked
Originally Posted by fustall
Simple question asked stupid replies from a bunch of trolls with nothing better to do....get a life and grow up!!
Originally Posted by fustall
Nearly everyday on Aviation Safety Network there is a Robinson Helicopter crash usually with Fatalities.
Originally Posted by fustall
How are these choppers given a permit to fly,
Originally Posted by fustall
what are the CAA,FAA,manufacturers doing about it?
Originally Posted by fustall
There must be something radically wrong in the design and/or engine.
Originally Posted by fustall
What does it take to stop this slaughter?
Quite simple, really.
Any other hyperbolic questions?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can understand people having concerns regarding the Robinson (especially when one is probably located not too far from Sywell aerodrome, home of the UK’s mainRobinson distributor), but having read through the ASN reports for Robinson incidents for the past couple of years it would appear that it is not so much the manufacturer at fault, but rather the pilots.
For example, since the beginning of 2010 the ASN lists 80 incidents involving the R22, but 27 of these occurrences happened during a training flight. A majority of the other incidents occurred on or en route to private sites and involved elements of pilot error during manoeuvring such as striking of power lines, hitting ground or trees when mustering livestock, operating in adverse weather conditions, or incorrect application of the flight controls which lead to mechanical failure (e.g. mast bumping,sheared main or tail rotor etc). Indeed, only 14 of these incidents state technical reasons as being the primary cause for forced landings, but this could as easily be attributed to poor maintenance of an aircraft as much as a manufacturing or design fault.
Very few of these occurrences list the PIC as a CPL holder, so one can assume that pretty much all of these incidents, aside from those where an individual was under training, involved PPL rated pilots. It is unfortunate therefore for Robinson that the reputation of their brand has been tarnished by those individuals who had insufficient experience for the conditions and circumstances in which they chose to operate.
For example, since the beginning of 2010 the ASN lists 80 incidents involving the R22, but 27 of these occurrences happened during a training flight. A majority of the other incidents occurred on or en route to private sites and involved elements of pilot error during manoeuvring such as striking of power lines, hitting ground or trees when mustering livestock, operating in adverse weather conditions, or incorrect application of the flight controls which lead to mechanical failure (e.g. mast bumping,sheared main or tail rotor etc). Indeed, only 14 of these incidents state technical reasons as being the primary cause for forced landings, but this could as easily be attributed to poor maintenance of an aircraft as much as a manufacturing or design fault.
Very few of these occurrences list the PIC as a CPL holder, so one can assume that pretty much all of these incidents, aside from those where an individual was under training, involved PPL rated pilots. It is unfortunate therefore for Robinson that the reputation of their brand has been tarnished by those individuals who had insufficient experience for the conditions and circumstances in which they chose to operate.
Last edited by G-UNYT; 22nd Sep 2012 at 19:52.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Other posters have pointed out that, as they're so cheap and widely available, Robinsons are so widely used, and often by relatively lower-hours pilots.
I don't know much about helicopters but I do know lots about statistics...and that's why a Lamborghini or Ferrari is unlikely to kill an 18-year old male driver - it might be powerful and tricky to drive, but most young men will simply never get near one. Check the grisly roll call of Citroen and Peugeot hatchbacks - they're not dangerous, just lots of them on the roads. Same with aircraft.
I'd chill about the Robinsons and panic about the millions of sometimes incompetent, poorly trained and almost entirely unregulated idiots driving within feet of you every day. After all, it'll be a while before PPL(H) holders kill / injure 3000 people in the UK every year....
I don't know much about helicopters but I do know lots about statistics...and that's why a Lamborghini or Ferrari is unlikely to kill an 18-year old male driver - it might be powerful and tricky to drive, but most young men will simply never get near one. Check the grisly roll call of Citroen and Peugeot hatchbacks - they're not dangerous, just lots of them on the roads. Same with aircraft.
I'd chill about the Robinsons and panic about the millions of sometimes incompetent, poorly trained and almost entirely unregulated idiots driving within feet of you every day. After all, it'll be a while before PPL(H) holders kill / injure 3000 people in the UK every year....