Some (more) questions/comments about airline flying

[Nicholas49]

As predictable as night following day, here I am with a few more questions/comments about airline operations, having recently returned from a trip to Italy.

Here are a few technical questions about flying that I'd be grateful if a professional pilot could help answer:

1) The route down to Lamezia took us down the east coast of Italy (Venice, Pescara) before crossing over to Naples. I know for certain that we landed on runway 28. And I know for certain that made a left turn to join the final approach. Otherwise, it was dark and I became disorientated. Given we were travelling south down the coast, why were we turning left to align with the runway? Is it because the approach took us down past the airport over the sea before making three left turns to join the final approach? I guess this only makes sense if you know the airport/approach and there is only one airline that flies there from the UK at present (it's blue and yellow), so not sure how far I'll get with this question!

2) The route back to London was up the west coast of Italy. My question is: who decides a flight's routing? The airline or ATC? Does it vary because the air traffic and weather varies? My return flight was a week later, but might the immediate return flight follow a different route?

Passenger comments (probably more pertinent to the SLF forum, I know)

3) You cannot always hear the safety demonstration when a recording is played. It needs to be louder. I have sensitive hearing and I could barely make it out. This is annoying. I listen in any case, but this time I was sitting in the emergency exit. It is also totally inconsistent with the 'please listen to the safety demonstration' talk that commanders (rightly) often give, including on this flight immediately beforehand. 'Please listen very, very carefully to the safety demonstration that follows because it is inaudible.' might be more appropriate. I considered raising this with the SCCM, but she looked like she was having such a bad day I decided not to bother. It is, however, something I have noted on previous flights. Should it not be the responsibility of the SCCM to make sure it is audible? Do you check the PA volume before the flight? It just seems hypocritical to get shirty with passengers who don't listen when they can't even if they want to...

4) Lamezia airport has to be the least organised airport I've experienced for a long time. I thought the fact the check-in desk was outside the terminal building (nicely doubling the workload of the check-in agents and the passengers' queuing time as everyone queues again to drop off their bag) was good enough, but no, there was more. The airport decided to detain us in the departure lounge, with the bus and aircraft waiting outside and ready to go from 40 minutes prior to departure up to and beyond the departure time. The reasons given? Because the right level of jobsworth security official wasn't there to 'unlock the door'. Because it was a 'flight to London'. Because 'all that stuffed in America'. The far-reaching effects of 9/11!

We waited so long for absolutely no good reason that even the captain came down from the aircraft to the departure lounge door. There followed an amusing sign language 'I-can't-hear-you' conversation through the glass door. His introductory PA did little to hide his annoyance. This wasn't the airline's fault. It was categorically due to the incompetence of the airport. I share it really because I guess it may make some ppruners smile/laugh. Only in Italy!

5) The cabin crew uniform that the FR girls wear is so, so unflattering. It's really not fair. On anyone.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<The route back to London was up the west coast of Italy. My question is: who decides a flight's routing? The airline or ATC? Does it vary because the air traffic and weather varies? My return flight was a week later, but might the immediate return flight follow a different route?>>

For scheduled flights, the flight plan is stored in computer by the airline months in advance, otherwise the flight plan is filed with ATC some hours before the flight. Routes are laid down in AIPs and on various charts and these routes are what is basically flown. However, in busy airspace such as Europe, aircraft are almost constantly under radar control so the actual tracks flown depend on many factors including weather, traffic and the controller(s) dealing with the flight.

[BOAC]

N49 - Google for rad_eur_general.pdf - it will answer some of your questions.

If you go about 3/4 the way down FlightSim.Com Feature: Around The World Part 2 you will see why the R28 approach does " 3 left turns" coming from Napoli.

[Sky Wave]

The route back to London was up the west coast of Italy. My question is: who decides a flight's routing? The airline or ATC? Does it vary because the air traffic and weather varies? My return flight was a week later, but might the immediate return flight follow a different route?

At my operation (UK Scheduled) the flight planning department decides on the route.

There are various parameters that dictates their choice however the main criteria is Minimum Fuel Track (Taking into account headwinds and distance), Minimum Cost Track (which also takes account of airways charges) and avoiding congested airspace which is causing slot delays.

Sometimes they also have to plan around airspace which has been NOTAM'd as restricted or closed.

Some airways are weekend only as they are within military areas Mon - Fri.

The slot delay issue can be a big one especially when there's strike action within a country. For example, when the French controllers go on strike you can often be routed to the likes of Malaga via Lands End and then down to Santiago as this can avoid a slot delay of many hours.

SW

[Denti]

For scheduled flights, the flight plan is stored in computer by the airline months in advance

We used to do that, however nowadays RPLs are just way too inflexible. For the last 6 or so years every flight we operate (roughly a quarter million sectors a year in europe, scheduled operation) is individually filed, since last year only 6 hours to 30 mins in advance of the EOBT, not counting refiling to get rid of restrictions.

Dispatchers use of course an automated system which tries to get the minimum cost route while taking into account weather and current and forecasted air traffic restrictions. When for whatever reason we pilots for a different routing or level they can tell me the extra cost for that down to every cent.

[TSR2]

Should it not be the responsibility of the SCCM to make sure it is audible? Do you check the PA volume before the flight? It just seems hypocritical to get shirty with passengers who don't listen when they can't even if they want to...

That's a very good point and I have long wondered what the CC would do if you informed them that the safety briefing is inaudible as I know all CC take safety briefings very seriously.
To illustrate this point, I have had two safety demo experiences recently. The first was on a Thomson flight where, almost at the end of the 'manual' safety briefing the CC member doing the audio noticed a passenger coming out of a toilet. He promptly started the briefing again.
The second was on a Monarch flight where the safety briefing was a recording and shortly before the end, the recording stopped unexpectedly. The crew immediately commenced a 'manual' briefing which required the aircraft to pull into a holding area and wait for the completion of the briefing.

[ianjlloyd]

I agree entirely that it is the height of rudeness (and stupidity) for passengers not to put down newspapers etc to listen to safety briefings. From recent flights on a number of airlines, off duty crew travelling as passengers are big offenders.

If an off duty crew member does not feel the need to listen to a safety briefing - which invariably includes a passage along the lines "We appreciate you may have flown frequently ..." what encouragement is there for other passengers to do so?

[Nicholas49]

Thanks for the replies, gents.

BOAC - thanks very much for that link. I now understand (better) what we did. It is mountainous down there!

...I have long wondered what the CC would do if you informed them that the safety briefing is inaudible as I know all CC take safety briefings very seriously.

TSR2 What I am saying is that it should not have to come to that. The whole point, surely, is that the SCCM member must be able to 'hear' that the audio is inaudible since s/he is in the cabin with the passengers!

I am under the impression that it is a legal requirement for the cabin crew, under the commander's delegated authority, to brief the passengers on safety issues. It follows, therefore, that if the passengers cannot hear the safety demonstration, the airline/crew has probably not fulfilled that legal obligation. Anyway, all I am saying is that it cuts both ways. If you want us to listen, you have to make sure we can hear you/the recording.

[TSR2]

Yes, I appreciate you were saying that the CC should be reponsible for ensuring the safety briefing could be heard by all passengers but the point I was making was what would the CC do if you told them the safety briefing was inaudible or for that matter, a passenger was deaf.