Ryanair Landing Techniques
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Ryanair Landing Techniques
As a former military and light aircraft pilot, and now a glider pilot, I have always wondered about Ryanair landings - usually no flare, just hit the runway more like a carrier landing. I thought I had just been unlucky (after one arrival at Bournemouth I asked the cabin crew if there would be a "heavy landing" check). Talking to friends today and several agreed that Ryanair landings always seemed firmer than those experienced with other airlines. Views?...
Last edited by Wander00; 16th Nov 2010 at 15:14.
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I was talking to my Ryanair pilot friend the other day and the subject came up. Of course I've forgotten the exact details due to a certain induced impairment at the time. But he explained that the 738 can be tricky to land smoothly in comparison to earlier 737s or the Airbus. Something to do with the change in wing design with the later models.
So they are not doing it deliberately. Hopefully an experienced 737 pilot will come along and explain it more clearly.
But my friend noted that people often think it's deliberate or poor technique. To be fair poor technique is something we've all fallen foul of at times. That horrible moment when you realise you messed up in the flare and the Earth rises up to meet you.
So they are not doing it deliberately. Hopefully an experienced 737 pilot will come along and explain it more clearly.
But my friend noted that people often think it's deliberate or poor technique. To be fair poor technique is something we've all fallen foul of at times. That horrible moment when you realise you messed up in the flare and the Earth rises up to meet you.
Is this why?
A few years ago somebody told me that they used aerodynamic braking after landing to reduce brake wear. He may have been winding me up, so I offer it with that caveat.
Again, a view from an expert would ghelp.
Cheers
B
Again, a view from an expert would ghelp.
Cheers
B
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I've only noticed firm landings with Ryanair when flying to airports that have limiting runways, such as Belfast City. I would imagine that touching down in the right place has to take priority over a long drawn out flare and gentle landing. On the flip-side, I've flown into London Stansted many times on the 738 and have experienced some real greasers! 
I don't think it's a Ryanair thing, it's frequently experienced on all other airlines. Perhaps you've just had a run of some slightly firmer touchdowns. As what sounds like an experienced pilot you'll know that every landing is different. Everything can be perfect down to the last few feet and sometimes you still can end up with a bit of a bump. It can even be down to something as simple as touching down on an uneven part of the runway (ever been to Belfast City!?)
Dont forget that a smooth landing isn't always a good landing, especially if it's at the end of a float that has used up a considerable amount of runway.
As was mentioned above the 738 is a little trickier to get a smooth landing from compared with earlier 737 models. If landing on a short runway it's very important to touchdown in the correct part of the runway rather than floating trying to achieve a smooth touchdown.
As for the subject of aerodynamic braking, any aircraft with speed-brakes/spoilers (in laymen's terms the flaps that pop-up on top of the wing) will use them after landing to help slow the aircraft, reduce the amount of runway required and reduce the wear on tyres and breaks. This is often used in conjunction with reverse thrust. Even selecting idle reverse thrust will result in some aerodynamic breaking, with the reversers sticking out into the airflow.
Hope that give you guys a bit more info
Dont forget that a smooth landing isn't always a good landing, especially if it's at the end of a float that has used up a considerable amount of runway.
As was mentioned above the 738 is a little trickier to get a smooth landing from compared with earlier 737 models. If landing on a short runway it's very important to touchdown in the correct part of the runway rather than floating trying to achieve a smooth touchdown.
As for the subject of aerodynamic braking, any aircraft with speed-brakes/spoilers (in laymen's terms the flaps that pop-up on top of the wing) will use them after landing to help slow the aircraft, reduce the amount of runway required and reduce the wear on tyres and breaks. This is often used in conjunction with reverse thrust. Even selecting idle reverse thrust will result in some aerodynamic breaking, with the reversers sticking out into the airflow.
Hope that give you guys a bit more info
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I will hazard a guess that it is down to the lack of experience up front i.e 200hr monkees paying their way in to the flight deck (the only way in for an FO apparently, experienced first officers need not apply by all accounts). Very poor t&cs and generally harangued crews could also be a factor. The last and only time I had the displeasure of flying the council estate of the sky, my wife and I nearly required back surgery after splatter down. Say what you like but any experienced pilot should know where and how to make contact with the tarmac, only a fool will stretch the flare in order to try and achieve a greaser. It is perfectly reasonable to expect an airline pilot to roll the wheels down on to the aiming point without crippling the SLF, regardless of type and at the correct speed I might add. So beware of bad workmen blaming tools etc..And there are a lot more tricky types of jet out there than the venerable old 738.
Last edited by shaun ryder; 16th Nov 2010 at 19:40.
I can honestly say the majority of the cadets that I have flown with have been at far higher level of competence than the cadets from our national carrier that I flew with several years ago. And whilst yes there are always going to be varying degrees of people's experience/ability, the Ryanair cadets seem to be far better trained.
But agreed, sometimes people don't get it quite right resulting in a firm touchdown and that's something that does indeed come with experience. It's not just a Ryanair thing, although perhaps that's about the only route that new people are coming into the industry at the moment.
But agreed, sometimes people don't get it quite right resulting in a firm touchdown and that's something that does indeed come with experience. It's not just a Ryanair thing, although perhaps that's about the only route that new people are coming into the industry at the moment.
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Mr Boeing instructs 737 pilots not to strive for a greaser but to make the contact positive.
When will people get over the conceit of judging a landing's "quality" by its smoothness?
Suggesting that percieved "heavy" landings (unflared - Ha!) are due to company policy or the experience level of cadets indicates to me a fundamental lack of understanding (and that's being polite) of the entire business.
edited as this is spotters corner...
When will people get over the conceit of judging a landing's "quality" by its smoothness?
Suggesting that percieved "heavy" landings (unflared - Ha!) are due to company policy or the experience level of cadets indicates to me a fundamental lack of understanding (and that's being polite) of the entire business.
edited as this is spotters corner...
Well Alsacienne, I have. See post above.
No need to feel threatened or hostile!
When will people get over the conceit of judging a landing's "quality" by its smoothness?
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Being Ex Ryanair Captain, there was no difference between the landings in Ryanair than there are in my current NON low cost airline. The average runway that the Ryanair guys fly to are performance limiting and often in very poor weather in Northern Europe. They do a good job and are far more current than 95% of the airline pilots out there.
The "pilots" (and indeed Mr Boeings) perfect landing is on the 1000ft markers on speed, on profile. Trying for a greaser on a short runway or even worse a wet short runway is going to lead to an overrun. The SLF perfect landing is a greaser, but a greaser that takes you off the end of the runway .... then you would have something to complain about.
Ryanair has its faults but the average pilot there is very good....shame about the company!
The "pilots" (and indeed Mr Boeings) perfect landing is on the 1000ft markers on speed, on profile. Trying for a greaser on a short runway or even worse a wet short runway is going to lead to an overrun. The SLF perfect landing is a greaser, but a greaser that takes you off the end of the runway .... then you would have something to complain about.
Ryanair has its faults but the average pilot there is very good....shame about the company!
So what's new? Many years ago on my ATCO cadet 'How to fly a Trident in 2 weeks' Course, I was taught that you don't (sorry didn't) flare a Trident as such, but you did check back on the controls because as the wing came into ground effect, there was a pitch down moment which you had to couteract. Other than that, you simply flew it on, and you could select reverse thrust before touchdown if necessary.
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Cant select reverse before wheels down on a 737-800
Had it demonstrated in the sim!
From my FCOM 2...
The thrust reverser can be deployed when either radio altimeter senses less than 10 feet altitude, or when the air/ground safety sensor is in the ground mode.
Movement of the reverse thrust levers is mechanically restricted until the forward thrust levers are in the idle position.
From my FCOM 2...
The thrust reverser can be deployed when either radio altimeter senses less than 10 feet altitude, or when the air/ground safety sensor is in the ground mode.
Movement of the reverse thrust levers is mechanically restricted until the forward thrust levers are in the idle position.
I always thought it was funny that you may have through skill and cunning avoided disaster for your flight but then plant the landing you were a bum. On the other hand you could incompetent and almost crash several times and then luck into a smooth landing and you were a hero. For better or worse the folks in the back usually have no clue what is going on up front. As stated in other posts there are a lot of possible reasons for a firm landing. some reflect the pilot's skill and some do not.
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Funny discussion.
Remember that Ryanair has a lot of pilots flying their aircraft who have experience from previous companies.
I aim for the greaser landing depending on performance. 15 knots on the nose with 2500 meters to roll to the first exit? Yeah, do your silk landing.
Coming into Rome, pissing rain and a runway covered in rubber? I'm put it down firmly on the blocks.
Other than that the 800 is more difficult to land than the 300. The wings are flexible like plastic and at full flaps roll stability is terrible. Compared to the 300, the 800 is also very sensitive to ground effect, with frequent floaters as a result.
And last but not least, to be fair, experiencing a few "hard" landings is no reason to brand the training or competence of Ryanair pilots. By the way, the official "Ryanair" technique is word for word the one described in the Boeing FCTM. So blame Everett
Remember that Ryanair has a lot of pilots flying their aircraft who have experience from previous companies.
I aim for the greaser landing depending on performance. 15 knots on the nose with 2500 meters to roll to the first exit? Yeah, do your silk landing.
Coming into Rome, pissing rain and a runway covered in rubber? I'm put it down firmly on the blocks.
Other than that the 800 is more difficult to land than the 300. The wings are flexible like plastic and at full flaps roll stability is terrible. Compared to the 300, the 800 is also very sensitive to ground effect, with frequent floaters as a result.
And last but not least, to be fair, experiencing a few "hard" landings is no reason to brand the training or competence of Ryanair pilots. By the way, the official "Ryanair" technique is word for word the one described in the Boeing FCTM. So blame Everett
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738/3 handling
d105
Could you please explain? are you a current 738 driver?I'm very interested in this, i hear that the 737 is very easy to fly in comparison to the md80 which is drive around town.
one thing i understand is that the systems are easier, and thats obvious, cause of the years and technology difference. but i want to know about the handling characteristics. since i started flying jet, i started on the md80 and i have to say this baby is a hand full. but its very satisfying in many ways cause it wont allow you to sit back and relax cause is some way or another you'll end up spilling everyones drinks and throw the cabin attendants around. Glad it hasn't happen too often. but stability at full flaps and high loads are awesome. it handles like a charm. aft-limit CG might be a tricky landing, but taking notice of it in every landing, and predicting the handling will result in a very satisfactory landing. making this an awesome plane! I wonder what the 727 is like to fly
Other than that the 800 is more difficult to land than the 300. The wings are flexible like plastic and at full flaps roll stability is terrible. Compared to the 300, the 800 is also very sensitive to ground effect, with frequent floaters as a result.
one thing i understand is that the systems are easier, and thats obvious, cause of the years and technology difference. but i want to know about the handling characteristics. since i started flying jet, i started on the md80 and i have to say this baby is a hand full. but its very satisfying in many ways cause it wont allow you to sit back and relax cause is some way or another you'll end up spilling everyones drinks and throw the cabin attendants around. Glad it hasn't happen too often. but stability at full flaps and high loads are awesome. it handles like a charm. aft-limit CG might be a tricky landing, but taking notice of it in every landing, and predicting the handling will result in a very satisfactory landing. making this an awesome plane! I wonder what the 727 is like to fly
