Cathay Pacific approached to operate BA flights during BA Cabin Crew strike
it is time the inexorable deterioration over the last twenty years in the conditions of service of airline pilots, cabin crew and engineers was put a stop to. I support the BA cabin crew
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What does Australia and the dispute have to do with BA and CX? Are all the Aussies flying for CX going to refuse to fly BA routes during a BA strike? I have a feeling the answer is: "Sure, we will fly".
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Doesn`t Unite have any mutual assistance agreements with their fellow unions abroad?
If BALPA called for a legal strike, I`m sure that BA would have a hard time to find any wet- or drylease aircraft available anywhere
If BALPA called for a legal strike, I`m sure that BA would have a hard time to find any wet- or drylease aircraft available anywhere
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It's funny how there are always some who wish everyone would forget Australia and 1989, isn't it? Some might ask - why? Could it be guilty conscience?
I wonder how many of them have ever spared one moment to think what part they played in the awful T&Cc we all "enjoy" today with their willingness, some would say eagerness, to screw over the careers of fellow pilots who were involved in a complex dispute that THEY had nothing to do with and which THEY knew nothing about except what the self-serving Australian airline companies fed them?
Remembering 1989, it's so "sixties".
Remembering the days when there was career progression and good T&Cs. Not "21st century", it would seem.
I wonder how many of them have ever spared one moment to think what part they played in the awful T&Cc we all "enjoy" today with their willingness, some would say eagerness, to screw over the careers of fellow pilots who were involved in a complex dispute that THEY had nothing to do with and which THEY knew nothing about except what the self-serving Australian airline companies fed them?
Remembering 1989, it's so "sixties".
Remembering the days when there was career progression and good T&Cs. Not "21st century", it would seem.
Only half a speed-brake
Question on labour agreements and strike provisions, though I realize this BA is a CC not FC issue.
The gist in our LA is (my very rough translation):
Essential meaning is that during strike company is entitled to seek contract FC elswhere. If the roles were reversed, however, our FC cannot be forced to accept work in-lieu of striking pilots. Of course I note that the cover is FC to FC only.
I'd like to ask, is it common to have such mutual provisions in the labour agreements around? What about CC, is it normal for them too, provided they are unionized. While I do not suppose CX CC have a union (or do they?), what would be the CX FC guidliness towards theoretical BA FC strike?
Thanks,
FD (the un-real)
PS: Clearly, the right to refuse is signed. Whether personell would step back or happily turn themselves in - that's another cup of tea.
The gist in our LA is (my very rough translation):
a) contrary to scope clause, the company may utilize external FC to fly aircraft registered on its AOC during the time of FC strike;
b) FC may refuse to work flights operated on behalf of other airline during their FC strike (wet lease-out), such action is not a breach of contract;
c) FC may refuse to work on other airline's aircraft during their FC strike (contracting FC), such action is not a breach of contract.
b) FC may refuse to work flights operated on behalf of other airline during their FC strike (wet lease-out), such action is not a breach of contract;
c) FC may refuse to work on other airline's aircraft during their FC strike (contracting FC), such action is not a breach of contract.
I'd like to ask, is it common to have such mutual provisions in the labour agreements around? What about CC, is it normal for them too, provided they are unionized. While I do not suppose CX CC have a union (or do they?), what would be the CX FC guidliness towards theoretical BA FC strike?
Thanks,
FD (the un-real)
PS: Clearly, the right to refuse is signed. Whether personell would step back or happily turn themselves in - that's another cup of tea.
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America West 737s were chartered by Ansett, who owned 25% of AWA and held the leases on half our 737s.
United flew domestic passengers between SYD and MLB as part of their scheduled flights. Before the dispute UAL did not pick up any pax in SYD.
I do not know what this has to do with today. The industry as far as pay and workrules were done in by deregulation and open skies, not a labor dispute 20 years ago. There were 2 domestic airlines in Australia in 1989, now there are how many, 4 at least? The only international carrier was Qantas, now you have more, correct? So the opportunites are greater since deregulation but the working conditions have eroded because of all the new entrants. It is a free market that the labor unions cannot hold hostage like they once did.
Just as the major airlines in the US lost their golden status once deregulation became law, so too goes the world market. BA feels the hit from Ryanair, Lufthansa from Air Berlin and so on. This is a new marketplace for pilot jobs. If you have unfettered access to entry in a market then you will have downward pressure on salaries because labor is the easiest cost to control and it is all about controlling costs now.
I made the remark about CX pilots flying the routes not because I really care if they do or not. I believe they will because it is business and business dictates how and where you fly. CX and BA have no union in common. It would be impossible to call this struck work when you have two different airlines in two different countries. The only way would be if there was a labor agreement within the alliance. Does CX hve that sort of agreement with BA?
United flew domestic passengers between SYD and MLB as part of their scheduled flights. Before the dispute UAL did not pick up any pax in SYD.
I do not know what this has to do with today. The industry as far as pay and workrules were done in by deregulation and open skies, not a labor dispute 20 years ago. There were 2 domestic airlines in Australia in 1989, now there are how many, 4 at least? The only international carrier was Qantas, now you have more, correct? So the opportunites are greater since deregulation but the working conditions have eroded because of all the new entrants. It is a free market that the labor unions cannot hold hostage like they once did.
Just as the major airlines in the US lost their golden status once deregulation became law, so too goes the world market. BA feels the hit from Ryanair, Lufthansa from Air Berlin and so on. This is a new marketplace for pilot jobs. If you have unfettered access to entry in a market then you will have downward pressure on salaries because labor is the easiest cost to control and it is all about controlling costs now.
I made the remark about CX pilots flying the routes not because I really care if they do or not. I believe they will because it is business and business dictates how and where you fly. CX and BA have no union in common. It would be impossible to call this struck work when you have two different airlines in two different countries. The only way would be if there was a labor agreement within the alliance. Does CX hve that sort of agreement with BA?
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ArkeFly from Holland will be doing some BA flights to Moscow , nice to go somewhere else for a day as well , were not on a collective agreement and CEO says we can basically do what we want anyway.
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If BA is prepared to hire Arke fly, they're really in dire straits...
On a more serious note, Arkevlaai, aren't your cabin crew member of VNC (or any other union)?
BTW
Can't imagine someone actually enjoying to be a scab, but then again I also can't imagine anyone enjoying a trip to SVO
On a more serious note, Arkevlaai, aren't your cabin crew member of VNC (or any other union)?
BTW
nice to go somewhere else for a day as well
Last edited by golfyankeesierra; 19th Mar 2010 at 23:14.
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One does wonder if we will see a lot of .............
PA31, BE90 or BE20 etc. flying into LHR to preserve slots? LH is on the doorstep. or will BA use Pilots to ferry equipment to CWL and back
There are a number of wide-bodies owned by carriers such as Qantas, Singapore Air, Malaysian etc on the ground at Heathrow from quite early morning to late evening. It will be interesting to know if BA have tried to charter these aircraft from good quality carriers for day-trip rotations to/from Europe?
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ryanair will Be operating Today 20, 21, 22 ba Flights From Gatwick Airport To Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow And Prestwick.
confirm By Crew + Pilots Sent Today By Taxi To Hotel And Airport. 3 Aircraft Base There Next 3 Days.
This Are Ba Flights, Not Extra Ryanair Ones.
Pick Up Arrange By Ba From Concourse House To Planes
Happy Flying!!!
confirm By Crew + Pilots Sent Today By Taxi To Hotel And Airport. 3 Aircraft Base There Next 3 Days.
This Are Ba Flights, Not Extra Ryanair Ones.
Pick Up Arrange By Ba From Concourse House To Planes
Happy Flying!!!
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Ryanair
One wonders quite what the passengers will make of the Ryanair cabin service, unless of course, it is to be modified to be more in line with the BA norm. If it is, I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of them will hardly notice the difference. I also suspect that MOL and his buddy, WW (surely they are now best mates?) are in frequent and heated discussion as to how the Ryanair model can be implemented in post-strike, BA, which is, after all, the whole point of this expensive and disruptive exercise.
The lowest common denominator is the most poweful number in mathematics, it is also the ultimate goal of (almost) all airline CEOs, to maximise return using the minimum possible resources. If Ryanair can do it, so can the rest.
The lowest common denominator is the most poweful number in mathematics, it is also the ultimate goal of (almost) all airline CEOs, to maximise return using the minimum possible resources. If Ryanair can do it, so can the rest.
I suppose the Ryanair crews will be getting longer turn-rounds than they are used to, if flying BA schedules? The cabin crew might actually get a hand to clear up the cabin between sorties, if the regular contractors are still involved. Ryanair crews might even get to enjoy that. 
Or will that mad, miserable MOL have ensured that didn't happen?
Or will that mad, miserable MOL have ensured that didn't happen?
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Good to see all the airlines operating for BA today down at Heathrow, shame about the 40 aircraft parked up nose to tail.
Shame about the idiots striking waving there banners everywhere and driving around looking for support.
I hav no sympathy for them at all, lets face it, I would rather have a job than be a person who could well bankrupt the job I have an lose it!
Think they need to look at themselves intead of the t****rs of unite!
Shame about the idiots striking waving there banners everywhere and driving around looking for support.
I hav no sympathy for them at all, lets face it, I would rather have a job than be a person who could well bankrupt the job I have an lose it!
Think they need to look at themselves intead of the t****rs of unite!