Armrests and Good Pilots
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Longitude East 114 degrees
Armrests and Good Pilots
Here's something I noticed over the years. If you are giving the First Officer a sector and he uses the armrests he is probably OK. If he does not use the armrests then keep an eye on him.
Prince of Dzun
P.S. No armrests means straight arm inputs direct from the shoulder and you don't play the piano using your shoulders.
Prince of Dzun
P.S. No armrests means straight arm inputs direct from the shoulder and you don't play the piano using your shoulders.
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From: The Back of Beyond
"giving the First Officer a sector"...Thank you very much! Cheeky g!t.
However, there is some truth in the fact that keeping your elbows on the armrests during all phases of flight results in smoother and more accurate 'hand-flying' for the reasons states above. Especially true on aircraft with bullhorn yokes such as the ERJ 145.
However, there is some truth in the fact that keeping your elbows on the armrests during all phases of flight results in smoother and more accurate 'hand-flying' for the reasons states above. Especially true on aircraft with bullhorn yokes such as the ERJ 145.
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: seat 0A
Prince of Dzun,
I agree 100%. .I use to fly with 250h TT F/O on the fuel converter, and I've done the same remark to these guys : "Try to use the armrests, your flying will be more accurate, more smooth". The answer is allways the same : "No, no, I don't like that".
It reminds me, when I was on initial training in the Air Force. The instructors were telling us something like that, 20 years ago..."If you don't use the armrests, you'll never be a good pilot". That's probably why the C130 F/O are using the armrests.
Concerning the responses you've got up there, it denotes some little experience of flying heavy airplanes.
Cheers,
And here is the second main remark :
I agree 100%. .I use to fly with 250h TT F/O on the fuel converter, and I've done the same remark to these guys : "Try to use the armrests, your flying will be more accurate, more smooth". The answer is allways the same : "No, no, I don't like that".
It reminds me, when I was on initial training in the Air Force. The instructors were telling us something like that, 20 years ago..."If you don't use the armrests, you'll never be a good pilot". That's probably why the C130 F/O are using the armrests.
Concerning the responses you've got up there, it denotes some little experience of flying heavy airplanes.
Cheers,
And here is the second main remark :
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Longitude East 114 degrees
expedite_climb:. .You are correct in what you say about armrests and rotation. I'd even go as far as to say that armrests may possibly reduce the number of tail strikes by simply stopping the ham fisted from hauling the aeroplane into the air using their shoulders.
Prince of Dzun
Prince of Dzun
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From: Longitude East 114 degrees
Fonck and others:. .Just to add a little more to my observations, the airline I flew for operated (over the years) the Convair 880, B707, L1011 and B747. The use of armrests was actively encouraged for all these types and on a check flight if the armrests were not in the down position for all phases of flight and with your elbows on them ,then it was an automatic mark down. I remember all my instructors including those from Lockheed and Boeing saying during endorsement " use the armrest ". Personally, I found the armrests made me feel more secure in the seat and I liked that feeling. However, it seems that they make some pilots feel trapped which may be the reason they opt not to use them.
Prince of Dzun
Prince of Dzun
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From: Back in the USSR
Prince - just make it SOP then there`s no argument. Anyway it seems to help when I use the rests. As for the piano playing analogy, I`ve never seen a grand piano with armrests or an upright for that matter.
BV138 - so you give Captains sectors do you ?.
GH
BV138 - so you give Captains sectors do you ?.
GH
Cunning Artificer
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
We used to have a piano with armrests. Couldn't reach 'em though, me shoulders weren't wide enough. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> . .**********************************. .Through difficulties to the cinema
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From: Zurich Switzerland-not
Well over 2000 hours of DC-9/MD-80 instruction/check airman time, both in the sim and aircraft. Very noticable difference in coordination during V1 cuts if the armrests are not used. Found it almost impossible for new pilots to properly control the airplane without the armrests being used, as overcorrections are very noticalbe. Most MEL's are fairly restrictive for broken armrests. When instructing and Checking on the DC/MD series I also look for useage and consider it a "correction" if not being utilized. The initial technique on the airplane for "V1 cut" is pretty much "arm locked, neutral ailerons - initially correct with rudder".
Guess it depends on the aircraft. Jumpseating on various transport jets I always felt that removing the armrests prior to take off was kind of like removing an asset. Basic flying technique shows head movements cause shoulder movements. Locking your elbow on the armrest somewhat prevents this.
Guess it depends on the aircraft. Jumpseating on various transport jets I always felt that removing the armrests prior to take off was kind of like removing an asset. Basic flying technique shows head movements cause shoulder movements. Locking your elbow on the armrest somewhat prevents this.
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: The Deep South (Sussex)
Perhaps the use of armrests should be optional, after all, this is how they were designed.
I have seen them greatly increase the smoothness of pilot inputs in good conditions, but on the other hand, seriously limit the ability to make large scale aileron deflections when needed for avoidance action or turbulence on the flare.
I have seen them greatly increase the smoothness of pilot inputs in good conditions, but on the other hand, seriously limit the ability to make large scale aileron deflections when needed for avoidance action or turbulence on the flare.
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From: Longitude East 114 degrees
Lou Scannon and jetjackel:. .Lou, you make two good points but the design of modern armrests is such they they can be fractionally adjusted to suit most pilots. Couple this with the other variable seat adjustments such as up/down, forward/back, incline and lumber then it is easy to find the position to cope with the circumstances you mention. jetjackel is right on when he refers to armrests as an asset. They certainly are during asymmetric conditions when keeping the elbows on the armrests virtually assures the neutral aileron by simply keeping the control wheel central. Brain now only needs to think about one thing i.e. the balancing rudder input which of course is the secret.. .Why would the manufacturers install an expensive item with its variable up down mechanism if it is superfluous. The DC-3 has armrests (not adjustable) and that's where I first learnt their value. I once read somewhere that when pilots were learning to fly during WW1 it was suggested they put their right elbow on their right thigh to stop over-correcting during the flare. Not quite the same as armrests but in a way similar.
Prince of Dzun
Prince of Dzun
