AF1 - crewing question...

[TeddyRuxpin]

All,

Does anyone know the crewing of AF1? Presumably it's USAF pilots in command - but how would their experience of the B747 compare to, for example, a regular BA Captain?

Is AF1 a more technically difficult beast to fly what with it's various modifications, save for the obvious security issues of driving the US Pres around?

Would a regular BA / VS / a.n.other 74 skipper be able to do the job as well as the USAF guys, presuming he / she were correctly vetted?

Soz if it's a dumb question, I'm sure rainboe will rant me out of the forum if it is

[Invicta DC4]

There is an updated version of the National Geographic Documentary on AF1 which will probably answer your questions if you can get to see it.

One item of interest was that the commander of AF1 normally remains the commander for the term of the President. The programme shows the new commander taking over for Barack Obama's first flight on AF1.

[BelArgUSA]

AF1 are both regular 747-200 powered by CF6 engines.
They are not much different from "civilian" 747s... oh yes, a few details.
xxx
The differences are that they are able to do air-to-air refueling.
They have the regular "10 tanks" for fuel system, as some ailine 747 have.
Self contained airstairs are located in the FWD cargo compartment.
The main difference would be in electronic equipment, radio/communications.
It is possible that the generators are higher output for these extras.
xxx
The flight deck pictures I saw, show no differences with a regular 747.
Analog "steam powered" round gages - like I used to fly.
Probably some updated FMS have been added for updated avionics.
Pilot training probably done at PanAm Academy for simulator and instructors.
Specialized training done "in-house" obviously by USAF.
In the AF1 "707" days 1970s/1980s, TWA provided training for the pilots.
xxx
I believe AF and LH 747 pilots could more or less fly Air Force One.
BA pilots, operating RR engines, would require CF6 differences training.
xxx

Happy contrails

[747-436]

The National Geographic doc is definaltly the place to get all the information about Air Force One and how it operates.

One thing quite different to commercial operations as stated I think by the previous commander under George W is that diverting is not an option, so if the weather looks dubious they are still going in! I imagine that if it looks very bad before they left they might change plans somehow but if it changes while en route at some places they would have to land there anyway!!

[Intruder]

Pilot training probably done at PanAm Academy for simulator and instructors.

It's done at the Atlas Air Training Center in Miami.

[Jet2LeedsTom]

Teddy - got to YouTube and type "NGC - On Board Air Force One" into the search box. It's all there. And even in High Def.

[TeddyRuxpin]

diverting is not an option

Seriously? (not that I'm doubting you for one second, of course!!)

They would - in extreme circs - risk the life of the US Pres by not diverting in extreme weather?

Surely there are some circumstances where diverting is unavoidable?

Also, Jet2Tom:

go to YouTube. It's all there

Many thanks for that, I'll be watching tonight. Hope my PC's up to scratch!

[Nicholas49]

If it is commanded by a USAF colonel and the president is Commander-in-Chief, who is actually in charge? The president outranks the aircraft commander. I know it doesn't matter in practice (can't see Obama telling the pilot he's doing it the wrong way) but if anyone knows the answer to this legal question I'd be interested.

[747-436]

Seriously? (not that I'm doubting you for one second, of course!!)

They would - in extreme circs - risk the life of the US Pres by not diverting in extreme weather?

I have just looked at the doc again to make sure I am correct. Yes at approx 32 mins in they say they must be prepared to land in any weather as everything is set up for the president at the destination, not anywhere else.

[TeddyRuxpin]

That makes sense - don't suppose you could have Obama kicking around Yates's Wine Lodge with a Blue WKD at LBA if it was a bit stormy at STN

[akerosid]

Nicholas49, I'm open to correction, but I believe the president is commander in chief of the US armed forces in his role of head of state. He is also head of government and in this respect of course, he's different from most governments (with the exception of France), where these roles are usually divided.

So, while as head of state, he is commander in chief, the CO of Air Force 1 is, like the captain, legally responsible and would have the right to divert if need be.

I guess, in the event of ditching, things are easier for the president; everyone else has to swim; he can just walk to the nearest shore.

Seriously, though, I wonder if AF1/2 pilots are taken from the E-4B fleet, or open to other transport fleet pilots - KC10, C17, etc? Even fighter/bomber pilots?

[Rainboe]

Would a regular BA / VS / a.n.other 74 skipper be able to do the job as well as the USAF guys, presuming he / she were correctly vetted?

No, I'm not going to rant. I will not, for you do not know what you do. It's just another 747 for goodness sake!

Here's a gem for you. When the very large British Airline does Royal/VIP flights, the management pilots jump at the chance of doing them. So the Very Important Queen or other VIPs of a European country get, as their aroplane driver, someone who mainly pilots a mahogany desk for 26 days out of 28, with consequent shocking landings, whilst the regular line pilots, who probably visit the place several times a year anyway and can usually fly the thing betterer, and whose job is frequent and regular flying throughout the month, continue flying citizens of that European country, and keenly watch Royal/VIP flights on the news to assess the landings. Such is life. If only they knew!

[Nicholas49]

Rainboe, so a bit like those trips where the VIP demands two captains because they think it makes for a safer flight?!

Do you know the answer to this? Does said management pilot (is the F/O a management pilot too? Is it possible to be a management pilot and an F/O? Surely not). Anyway, on a VIP trip with several sectors going from one country to the next (I am thinking of the one just completed by Brown), do the same crew fly the whole trip? Do they get enough rest for this on the stopovers? Or does the 744 carry relief/augment crews on board to help? Thanks in advance. Nick.

[Flightmech]

TeddyRuxpin,

Like Rainboe has said, its just another 747 with gadgets, so I guess a regular commercial 747 pilot could fly it no problem. Probably have to brush up on the air-to-air refuelling techniques though

[Horwood]

On seeing the NG doc it stated that on 9/11 ,AF1 had to land to refuel before returning to Washington.I always thought that the military 747s were air to air refuelling capable.Does anyone know if this is true for the Presidential aircraft or is it only used when POTUS is not on board.I would have thought on that day any such restriction would have been waived.

[betterfromabove]

What I found amazing watching that documentary was that they were still on VHF ATC during 9/11....

You would have thought they would have gone to UHF, even if the controller didn't want to know where they were going....& they were the only plane left in the sky.

Odd.

[deltayankee]

Would a regular BA / VS / a.n.other 74 skipper be able to do the job

If you are hoping that someone with an AF1 jacket will pop into the Three Magpies one night and say "our pilot is tired, does anyone knows how to drive a 742 and hasn't had too many drinks?" I think you will be disappointed. This is a seriously big operation. They normally fly both aircraft (one for the POTUS, one spare) and on long haul routes they must have two crews each. Add to that the extra crews they need for leave, illness, training, medicals and so on and it is clear they must have dozens of people on the roster and can reposition extra crew very easily (the USAF has an awful lot of airplanes).