46 pages of complaints on the A380
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Britannia had a major problem with the 767 when they first
got them.
The boilers NEVER got hot enough to brew tea properly!
Apparently they were set at a lower temp because the
Yanks only ever wanted coffee. So a decent cup of tea
was out of the question. They were adjusted later, but
that is the sort of "Problem" that pops up with "new"
aircraft.
Yards and yards of "Trivia".
got them.
The boilers NEVER got hot enough to brew tea properly!
Apparently they were set at a lower temp because the
Yanks only ever wanted coffee. So a decent cup of tea
was out of the question. They were adjusted later, but
that is the sort of "Problem" that pops up with "new"
aircraft.
Yards and yards of "Trivia".
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Storminnorm,
From the point of view of the CC and SLF, blocked, overflowing and U/S toilets are not trivia.... even if usually they do not affect the airworthiness of the aircraft (unless the water gets into the electronics...).
Maybe they forgot to install some of the drains, when they tried to route all that extra IFE wiring.
Sounds like a job for Joe the Plumber.
CJ
From the point of view of the CC and SLF, blocked, overflowing and U/S toilets are not trivia.... even if usually they do not affect the airworthiness of the aircraft (unless the water gets into the electronics...).
Maybe they forgot to install some of the drains, when they tried to route all that extra IFE wiring.
Sounds like a job for Joe the Plumber.
CJ
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I'm still surprised by how much gets into the media about the A380 when Boeing have the 787 that is already two years and a bit late and it hasn't even had its first flight yet.
The flight test program they had scheduled (I'm not sure how its changed after all the delays) was the most aggressive ever planned for any aircraft.
And if you think the A380 has new technologies to overcome, has anyone had a look at all the new stuff incorporated into the 787 design? No more calling airbuses plastic with Boeings new carbonfibre hull. The 787 doesn't even use bleed to provide the cabin heating anymore (I'm not sure about pressurisation). They have also gone for electric de-icing systems. No more hydraulic braking systems. Its electro-mechanical acctuation for the 787.
Not to mention the problems they've had with the center box re-design and increase in weight, the engines not making the expected efficiencies and the rumours of a much reduced range.
And yet none of that seems to make it to the press! Boeing must have some really good spin doctors. So the A380 keeps making the news.
I'm waiting to see what happens when the 787 finally makes its first flight and whether they pick up any major problems with the flight tests. I can only imagine the kind of problems that will appear once the 787 comes online with the launch customers. (The American launch customer Northwest has had its 787's removed from the firm order list by Delta, which could mean Continental gets to prize of sorting out the snags.) With so many new technologies in a one aircraft there can only be multiple problems that appear that will have been impossible to plan for.
Boeing might even make the papers finally. Or Der Speigel.
(Retiring now to a safe place to await the incoming)
PS I forgot to mention the electronic window shades and the fact that the flight computers are separated from the entertainment computers only by a firewall (computer firewall, not a physical firewall like that in a Cessna 172). Sounds strange to me but then I'm not a boeing computer engineer.
The flight test program they had scheduled (I'm not sure how its changed after all the delays) was the most aggressive ever planned for any aircraft.
And if you think the A380 has new technologies to overcome, has anyone had a look at all the new stuff incorporated into the 787 design? No more calling airbuses plastic with Boeings new carbonfibre hull. The 787 doesn't even use bleed to provide the cabin heating anymore (I'm not sure about pressurisation). They have also gone for electric de-icing systems. No more hydraulic braking systems. Its electro-mechanical acctuation for the 787.
Not to mention the problems they've had with the center box re-design and increase in weight, the engines not making the expected efficiencies and the rumours of a much reduced range.
And yet none of that seems to make it to the press! Boeing must have some really good spin doctors. So the A380 keeps making the news.
I'm waiting to see what happens when the 787 finally makes its first flight and whether they pick up any major problems with the flight tests. I can only imagine the kind of problems that will appear once the 787 comes online with the launch customers. (The American launch customer Northwest has had its 787's removed from the firm order list by Delta, which could mean Continental gets to prize of sorting out the snags.) With so many new technologies in a one aircraft there can only be multiple problems that appear that will have been impossible to plan for.
Boeing might even make the papers finally. Or Der Speigel.
(Retiring now to a safe place to await the incoming)
PS I forgot to mention the electronic window shades and the fact that the flight computers are separated from the entertainment computers only by a firewall (computer firewall, not a physical firewall like that in a Cessna 172). Sounds strange to me but then I'm not a boeing computer engineer.
Last edited by FabFlyer; 16th Mar 2009 at 17:29. Reason: Items added
They can't fix how fugly the damn thing is though ...
A 40 ft stretch would help.
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I remember during the A380 development, they were very keen to show how wonderful their toilets were going to be. Touting that they could even flush "Mobile Phones" down there.
Guess every businessman has tried that out for himself!!!
Guess every businessman has tried that out for himself!!!
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I'm courius if we have any A380 pilots on this forum? There should be at least the same amount of A380 rated pilots in the world by now as it was with Concorde pilots in the past, and I think had a few of them here...
So why don't we ask A380 drivers to share their opinion about A380?
So why don't we ask A380 drivers to share their opinion about A380?
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And yet none of that seems to make it to the press! Boeing must have some really good spin doctors. So the A380 keeps making the news.
You listed off a long list of deficiencies of the 787... how did you find out about them? The press perhaps?
The A380 is an "airworthy" plane with paying passengers. Companies unrelated to Airbus are subject to the aircrafts failures in real time, as do their passengers. Seems a bit newsworthy, at least on a slow news day.
I'm waiting to see what happens when the 787 finally makes its first flight and whether they pick up any major problems with the flight tests. I can only imagine the kind of problems that will appear once the 787 comes online with the launch customers.
It would be delusional to think somehow Boeing is going to hide the 787 from the press when it starts flying.
(The American launch customer Northwest has had its 787's removed from the firm order list by Delta, which could mean Continental gets to prize of sorting out the snags.)
I had to read that a few times... at first I thought you meant American "Airlines" was the launch customer, which of course, is not the case. But, you'll note that Delta never did have 787's on order. They planned to continue to fly $150million 777's instead of $250million 787's. So, it comes as no surprise to me that when they inherit the Northwest Airlines 787 orders, things get reviewed and amended.
I'm confident Airbus will sort out the A380, as Boeing will on the 787. What I don't think will happen is the A380 making money, with a (now) 472 orders needed to break even.
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Quote:
"What I don't think will happen is the A380 making money, with a (now) 472 orders needed to break even."
When you were around 9 and 10 years old people were saying the same about the 747.
Not quite sure why the generic term "American" caused you confusion. Fabflyer's sentence was quite understandable - his use of the definite article before the word "American" made it obvious he wasn't talking about the airline.
"What I don't think will happen is the A380 making money, with a (now) 472 orders needed to break even."
When you were around 9 and 10 years old people were saying the same about the 747.
Not quite sure why the generic term "American" caused you confusion. Fabflyer's sentence was quite understandable - his use of the definite article before the word "American" made it obvious he wasn't talking about the airline.
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I should point out that a man who thinks progress ended with the TriStar is moaning about teething troubles on a newly introduced aircraft. Suffice to say no A380s have crashed in the Everglades, burned out on a runway killing everyone or blown a main gear tyre into the cabin.
With different, more competent flight deck responses in those two circumstances, the first might never have resulted in even a single loss of life, and the second might have seen at least some of the pax and crew survive.
More than just an ATCO
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From post #2
When the original started flying it had a problem getting of the ground. They were a regular feature crossing over Blackbushe at circuit height
When the 747-400 came out there were a lot of problems
Does this not just illustrate the lack of improvement in project management?
Whichever way you look at it, industry should be far more adept, efficient, and commercially astute at bringing these projects to the market on schedule, on cost, and with fewer teething problems.
When ever new aircraft projects are announced they seem always to be 'rushed' into service. This is not chewing gum you are trying to sell.
Hasn't flight safety improved over the years? Despite greater pressures, bigger and more complex equipment, and larger passenger numbers, flight safety has improved over the past 30 years. Why hasn't aircraft production/design?
Whichever way you look at it, industry should be far more adept, efficient, and commercially astute at bringing these projects to the market on schedule, on cost, and with fewer teething problems.
When ever new aircraft projects are announced they seem always to be 'rushed' into service. This is not chewing gum you are trying to sell.
Hasn't flight safety improved over the years? Despite greater pressures, bigger and more complex equipment, and larger passenger numbers, flight safety has improved over the past 30 years. Why hasn't aircraft production/design?
Thought police antagonist
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It would be interesting to see what these 46 pages consisted of with regard to the complexity and safety related issues raised....but we never will I suppose.
That said, as others have commented, every new type has teething troubles and I seem to recall the 767 had one or two..notably carrying some extra metal...or swarf if you prefer...that had been "missed" during the quality checks...... but not, subsequently, by the booster pumps. The toilets had a habit of failing with frequent monotony as well. All sorted out eventually as no doubt will be the issues with the A380.
However, the prize for the worst introduction to service must surely be held by that unadulterated heap of junk aka the ATP....so much so, that Waste of space held a series of "hearts and minds" ( plus BS! ) events to convince the operators the aircraft was as they claimed...even if the facts spoke otherwise.
That said, as others have commented, every new type has teething troubles and I seem to recall the 767 had one or two..notably carrying some extra metal...or swarf if you prefer...that had been "missed" during the quality checks...... but not, subsequently, by the booster pumps. The toilets had a habit of failing with frequent monotony as well. All sorted out eventually as no doubt will be the issues with the A380.
However, the prize for the worst introduction to service must surely be held by that unadulterated heap of junk aka the ATP....so much so, that Waste of space held a series of "hearts and minds" ( plus BS! ) events to convince the operators the aircraft was as they claimed...even if the facts spoke otherwise.
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Why is that every single post I have ever seen that is knocking the A380 (and granted I do not come on here as much as I used to) is from someone in the US.......
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Beauty and the Beast.
If EK bought Rollers and the thing was built in Germany, would wouldn't be talking about it at all. SQ have had a fabulous entry into service and have just carried their millionth passenger. Mervyn Sirisena, SQ's head spanner monkey, a notoriously difficult man, has said that the beast's entry into service has been "the best I've ever known".
Must be something to do with the A-rabs.
Should have bought Rolls Royce, Maurice!
Must be something to do with the A-rabs.
Should have bought Rolls Royce, Maurice!
