The cap & the uniform & the pride
Guest
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Looking through this thread I suspect all of you who have contributed so far have come up through the civilian route. As a serving army officer I am expected to wear either a cap or a beret depending on the type of uniform I am in at all times except when inside a building. Even then, there are circumstances when I still have to wear it.
As has been pointed out, aviation owes a lot to both merchant and military maritime operations. The uniform looks very similar to that of a deck officer from a merchant fleet. When these uniforms were designed gentlemen wore hats as a matter of course, and one was not considered properly attired unless wearing a hat of some order. This was true even of blue-collar workers. This has carried on into the uniforms of the present day.
Now for my humble opinion. Hats do complete the uniform, in fact that is what distinguishes a pilot from any other man wearing a dark double-breasted suit. The bars worn on the sleve are not always as high-profile as the Navy and so the hat adds a mark of distinction. There is also the issue of public perception. I believe the public expect to see a professional pilot look like a professional pilot, jacket, tie, hat and all. You can argue until you are blue in the face that as a professional you are just as capable of doing the job regardless of what you were. This may be true, however in the eye of the public who fly your airline they expect that a job with such immense responsibility and learning should carry with it the apparrel of authority and rank. Dumbing down dress can only serve to lower the impression that a pilot is no better trained or professional than a sheet metal worker who tips up to his workshop in jeans and trainers. It is the same for officers in the services. No matter how smart my soldiers look, I have to look smarter.
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Remember: all landings are controlled crashes!
[This message has been edited by kbf1 (edited 25 September 2000).]
As has been pointed out, aviation owes a lot to both merchant and military maritime operations. The uniform looks very similar to that of a deck officer from a merchant fleet. When these uniforms were designed gentlemen wore hats as a matter of course, and one was not considered properly attired unless wearing a hat of some order. This was true even of blue-collar workers. This has carried on into the uniforms of the present day.
Now for my humble opinion. Hats do complete the uniform, in fact that is what distinguishes a pilot from any other man wearing a dark double-breasted suit. The bars worn on the sleve are not always as high-profile as the Navy and so the hat adds a mark of distinction. There is also the issue of public perception. I believe the public expect to see a professional pilot look like a professional pilot, jacket, tie, hat and all. You can argue until you are blue in the face that as a professional you are just as capable of doing the job regardless of what you were. This may be true, however in the eye of the public who fly your airline they expect that a job with such immense responsibility and learning should carry with it the apparrel of authority and rank. Dumbing down dress can only serve to lower the impression that a pilot is no better trained or professional than a sheet metal worker who tips up to his workshop in jeans and trainers. It is the same for officers in the services. No matter how smart my soldiers look, I have to look smarter.
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Remember: all landings are controlled crashes!
[This message has been edited by kbf1 (edited 25 September 2000).]
Guest
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I agree with kbf1,
But once I am on the deck even the tie goes off.
On a long haul flight I have even seen guy's change and put on a looser outfit altogether.
As a finisher I would like to state that what you see is not always what you get we all know that.
I heard there was an airline who considered that the PPC would be done in uniform what about that ?
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Smooth Trimmer
But once I am on the deck even the tie goes off.
On a long haul flight I have even seen guy's change and put on a looser outfit altogether.
As a finisher I would like to state that what you see is not always what you get we all know that.
I heard there was an airline who considered that the PPC would be done in uniform what about that ?
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Smooth Trimmer
Guest
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Its the fact that I was subjected to wear a hat as a military officer for 8 years that I hate it so much now. We are in the 21 century for crying out loud, anyone who believes that a gentleman in not properly dressed unless he has a hat on his head lives in the dark ages!
Make a uniform, neat, smart and practical!
Make a uniform, neat, smart and practical!
Guest
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So I suppose that the folks at SouthWest - a huge operator by any standing - have got it wrong when their uniform includes a leather jacket and NO hat (baseball cap optional, I believe).
Now I wear BA navy blue with silver stripes, and to be honest I wish I was in SouthWest's, coz inspite of a looking shabby (in some folks eyes) their airline actually makes money - lots of money - which must surely disprove the idea that the pax respect the uniform ( or perhaps they do ! )
Do you know, I'll bet that SouthWests leather jacket alone, costs more than my whole garb - and it without any doubt is bound to be of better quality !
Now I wear BA navy blue with silver stripes, and to be honest I wish I was in SouthWest's, coz inspite of a looking shabby (in some folks eyes) their airline actually makes money - lots of money - which must surely disprove the idea that the pax respect the uniform ( or perhaps they do ! )
Do you know, I'll bet that SouthWests leather jacket alone, costs more than my whole garb - and it without any doubt is bound to be of better quality !
Guest
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Hmm. Who else wears hats? Let me think. Bus drivers. Train station attendants. Zoo keepers. Women at weddings. Hey, perhaps politicians should start wearing hats? 
Does it mean they are at the top of their profession? Let us consider animal rescue. RSPCA inspectors wear hats. They go round and bring the animals into the clinic. In the clinic are vets. They wear any clothes they like (usually with a white coat on top). No hat. Yet they have spent many years at Uni and in training prior to qualifying. Are we saying that the public have less respect for vets than the van drivers who pick up the animals?
Airline pilots are not in the military. Does anyone really care if we wear hats or not? Many airline's pilots don't wear hats. "Go" springs to mind. Is it even slightly relevant? As long as we wear a recognisable uniform, does it matter? Are we saying that cabin crew are not professional because they don't wear hats? (Well, OK, some do).
I think it is time for the "airline pilot" uniform to go through a thorough update and be brought into the 21st century. I'm not saying go casual and wear baseball caps, but there really must be something better out there than the poor quality, cut and look of the uniforms many of us wear.
Does it mean they are at the top of their profession? Let us consider animal rescue. RSPCA inspectors wear hats. They go round and bring the animals into the clinic. In the clinic are vets. They wear any clothes they like (usually with a white coat on top). No hat. Yet they have spent many years at Uni and in training prior to qualifying. Are we saying that the public have less respect for vets than the van drivers who pick up the animals?
Airline pilots are not in the military. Does anyone really care if we wear hats or not? Many airline's pilots don't wear hats. "Go" springs to mind. Is it even slightly relevant? As long as we wear a recognisable uniform, does it matter? Are we saying that cabin crew are not professional because they don't wear hats? (Well, OK, some do).
I think it is time for the "airline pilot" uniform to go through a thorough update and be brought into the 21st century. I'm not saying go casual and wear baseball caps, but there really must be something better out there than the poor quality, cut and look of the uniforms many of us wear.
Guest
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This relates to a previous post that seems relevant....
Base Check Questionnaire
1. The stall warning stick shaker operates at:
a) 140kts in clean configuration
b) Vref + 5Kts in landing configuration
c) Whatever you say it does
2. When cleared for the approach to 26L at **** you should:
a) Land on 26L
b) Land on 26R
c) Land on Taxiway November
3. When cleared for a **** SID you should:
a) Fly the SID to the tolerances allowed in the Instrument Rating test
b) Save fuel by flying direct to the *** VOR
c) Select wings to swept position and pull 6G
4. When “looking beyond the flight safety aspect” it is essential to recognise:
a) That the correct decision may be straightforward or good.
b) That the good decision may be safe or correct
c) That the good decision may be straightforward or safe
5. If a diversion occurs the Captain should meet the passengers at least:
a) Once
b) Once an hour until his crew abandon him
c) Once an hour minimum until he gets chinned
6. Before entering controlled airspace:
a) A clearance must be obtained
b) A clearance is not necessary if a Training Captain is on board
c) The First Officer is always responsible for infringements
6. When on duty the uniform cap must always be worn. The reason for this is:
a) Co-ordination with the uniform tie
b) To generate respect from passengers
c) To increase vertical stature
7. With reference to the cross cockpit authority gradient:
a) Training Captains must always be respected for their firm Captaincy
b) Is not applicable in this company
c) 82 First Officers are not wrong
8. The use of Auto-throttle:
a) Depends on which Captain is flying
b) Is an unnecessary modern device; power is always controlled with the thrust levers
c) Should be attempted with caution due to the gross mismatches of N1, EPR & TGT on company aircraft.
9. A STAR procedure:
a) Must be flown precisely as depicted due to terrain and noise considerations
b) May be ignored if a Training Captain is on board
c) Is a suggestion only and may always be ignored
10. When checking the MEL you note that a deficiency may only be accepted until the aircraft arrives at an airport where repairs can reasonably be made. This means:
a) Main base
b) Engineering base
c) Any nominated airfield outside the company’s route structure if time or spares are short
11. Departing from **** your clearance is via the ***** SID. Due to the condition of the charts on board it is not possible to identify the correct one. You should:
a) Take off and turn at an appropriate place direct to the first en-route VOR
b) Charts are not necessary if a Ouija board is available
c) Attempt to use the aircraft’s mobile phone and ask a Training Captain for advice
12. When attempting to use the aircraft mobile phone you discover that there are four such phones on board. This means:
a) All four batteries are flat
b) Three other aircraft have no phone
c) There is a sale at the Carfone Warehouse, price £9.99
13. Departing Rome you receive the loadsheet and notice that the dry operating Weight and Index are actually correct. The action you should take is:
a) Contact the Operations Manager for advice
b) Complete a Mandatory Occurrence report
c) None. Any variation is minor and of no consequence
14. The completion of a Mandatory Occurrence Report is:
a) Required in the event of any on-schedule departure
b) Never required by training or management pilots
c) On edible rice paper
15. After advising the cabin crew over the PA to be seated for take off:
a) Return the transmit selector to company frequency
b) Remain on PA; the No 1 will receive clearances on her mobile phone
c) Give four chimes on the cabin emergency call and arm the slides
Base Check Questionnaire
1. The stall warning stick shaker operates at:
a) 140kts in clean configuration
b) Vref + 5Kts in landing configuration
c) Whatever you say it does
2. When cleared for the approach to 26L at **** you should:
a) Land on 26L
b) Land on 26R
c) Land on Taxiway November
3. When cleared for a **** SID you should:
a) Fly the SID to the tolerances allowed in the Instrument Rating test
b) Save fuel by flying direct to the *** VOR
c) Select wings to swept position and pull 6G
4. When “looking beyond the flight safety aspect” it is essential to recognise:
a) That the correct decision may be straightforward or good.
b) That the good decision may be safe or correct
c) That the good decision may be straightforward or safe
5. If a diversion occurs the Captain should meet the passengers at least:
a) Once
b) Once an hour until his crew abandon him
c) Once an hour minimum until he gets chinned
6. Before entering controlled airspace:
a) A clearance must be obtained
b) A clearance is not necessary if a Training Captain is on board
c) The First Officer is always responsible for infringements
6. When on duty the uniform cap must always be worn. The reason for this is:
a) Co-ordination with the uniform tie
b) To generate respect from passengers
c) To increase vertical stature
7. With reference to the cross cockpit authority gradient:
a) Training Captains must always be respected for their firm Captaincy
b) Is not applicable in this company
c) 82 First Officers are not wrong
8. The use of Auto-throttle:
a) Depends on which Captain is flying
b) Is an unnecessary modern device; power is always controlled with the thrust levers
c) Should be attempted with caution due to the gross mismatches of N1, EPR & TGT on company aircraft.
9. A STAR procedure:
a) Must be flown precisely as depicted due to terrain and noise considerations
b) May be ignored if a Training Captain is on board
c) Is a suggestion only and may always be ignored
10. When checking the MEL you note that a deficiency may only be accepted until the aircraft arrives at an airport where repairs can reasonably be made. This means:
a) Main base
b) Engineering base
c) Any nominated airfield outside the company’s route structure if time or spares are short
11. Departing from **** your clearance is via the ***** SID. Due to the condition of the charts on board it is not possible to identify the correct one. You should:
a) Take off and turn at an appropriate place direct to the first en-route VOR
b) Charts are not necessary if a Ouija board is available
c) Attempt to use the aircraft’s mobile phone and ask a Training Captain for advice
12. When attempting to use the aircraft mobile phone you discover that there are four such phones on board. This means:
a) All four batteries are flat
b) Three other aircraft have no phone
c) There is a sale at the Carfone Warehouse, price £9.99
13. Departing Rome you receive the loadsheet and notice that the dry operating Weight and Index are actually correct. The action you should take is:
a) Contact the Operations Manager for advice
b) Complete a Mandatory Occurrence report
c) None. Any variation is minor and of no consequence
14. The completion of a Mandatory Occurrence Report is:
a) Required in the event of any on-schedule departure
b) Never required by training or management pilots
c) On edible rice paper
15. After advising the cabin crew over the PA to be seated for take off:
a) Return the transmit selector to company frequency
b) Remain on PA; the No 1 will receive clearances on her mobile phone
c) Give four chimes on the cabin emergency call and arm the slides
kbf1, when I was an apprentice engineer (that was before army, merchant navy, RAF and airlines) I quite admired the skills of sheet metal workers. How did they know how much extra material to allow for all those bends? and how do they get these wonderful double curves into a Bentley front wing?
Anyway, I digress; my personal preference would be no caps and open neck shirts (No gold chains, ducky!) BUT dress standard is decided by management and, like company SOPs, should be complied with.
Anyway, I digress; my personal preference would be no caps and open neck shirts (No gold chains, ducky!) BUT dress standard is decided by management and, like company SOPs, should be complied with.
Guest
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I hate bloodey uniforms and caps! 
My cap stay permanentley at home (minus keys, pen, wallet, etc when Im on duty) otherwise Id lose the damn thing.
My epalettes can usualy be found in my pocket (to be donned only if CP is lurking around the terminal)
My tie is around my neck in public (removed while in the cockpit.
Wings stay put on my shirt because its too bothersome fitting and removing the bloodey studs underneath it (and they contantley scratch my left tit if Ive misfitted them)
* Ill only wear a full uniform if Im getting my Company picture took.
My cap stay permanentley at home (minus keys, pen, wallet, etc when Im on duty) otherwise Id lose the damn thing.
My epalettes can usualy be found in my pocket (to be donned only if CP is lurking around the terminal)
My tie is around my neck in public (removed while in the cockpit.
Wings stay put on my shirt because its too bothersome fitting and removing the bloodey studs underneath it (and they contantley scratch my left tit if Ive misfitted them)
* Ill only wear a full uniform if Im getting my Company picture took.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Traveler, I'm a freightdog on L10s out of MIA. Most of our flying is in the Caribbean and in Latin America, and believe me, the further south you go from MIA the more braid you need and the more exotic the caps etc get. As long as you look the part, you don't get hassled by the airport authorities - but if you turn up scruffy and without the uniform (including cap) they'll regard you with major suspicion.
And a decent cap (mine, along with my uniform comes from Tally Ho on NW36St)with a waterproof lining is great for keeping balding heads dry in rainshowers.
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And a decent cap (mine, along with my uniform comes from Tally Ho on NW36St)with a waterproof lining is great for keeping balding heads dry in rainshowers.
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You're so right, Sid, in many parts of the world the uniform counts for more than the ID card.
In any case, both can be easily forged.
Why'd I bother to post this - we all know it anyway - yes, I know, I've just come in from't pub, wife's asleep, I'm bored - i wonder what's on TV, PPRUNE Chat, porn sites, whaddabout a coffee ~~~~~~ zzzzzzz
In any case, both can be easily forged.
Why'd I bother to post this - we all know it anyway - yes, I know, I've just come in from't pub, wife's asleep, I'm bored - i wonder what's on TV, PPRUNE Chat, porn sites, whaddabout a coffee ~~~~~~ zzzzzzz
Guest
Posts: n/a
My outfit used to wear caps, then they stopped. Dunno why, but I wish I had a cap that I could choose NOT to wear. Could be a hark back to the days before I got kicked out of the RAF when I wished I had a '50-mission hat'. Still, if we still had them, I'd wear it with pride, provided I'd had the chance to kick the crap out of it properly first. It would be nice to see Nigel walking by, at East Midlands in his brand new shiney little hat, knowing that I still fly a better aeroplane than him, I earn more than him and I've got a better-looking hat than him. Nuff said!
Guest
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I along with 99% of the public completely lost all respect for Bankers when they stopped wearing Bowlers.I believe Mill Foremen (Oop North ) still need a large top hat to get anything done.As for the Navy! It's been a laughing stock since they scrapped those Tricorn jobs.
Guest
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Reminds me of a story I was told by one of the guys in BA unifrom stores...
A skipper walks in to replace his cap. He is handed one of the shelf and proceeds to put it in the carrier bag along with the rest of the replacement uniform.
The assistant asks "Excuse me sir, aren't you going to try it on?"
At which point the Captain remarks "oh, yes of course I should" and proceeds to put it under his arm and remarks "yes, that fits just fine!!!!"
A skipper walks in to replace his cap. He is handed one of the shelf and proceeds to put it in the carrier bag along with the rest of the replacement uniform.
The assistant asks "Excuse me sir, aren't you going to try it on?"
At which point the Captain remarks "oh, yes of course I should" and proceeds to put it under his arm and remarks "yes, that fits just fine!!!!"