How do you get to fly Warbirds?
Guest
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Beaver:
Glad to read that you found the Tiger Club. I haven't flown there for some years but, unless it's changed a lot (which I doubt) it's one of the best places to learn aeros. Members are always happy to help, and you get to fly with experienced aerobatic pilots.
I think the oldest Tiger Moth to which you refer is G-ACDC.
The Tiger is an important part of our aviation heritage, gives you a real sense of history, and takes skill to fly well. But, IMHO, it's not nearly as much fun to fly as the Stampe which is much more responsive, and is an excellent a/c in which to learn aeros. (I've got my tin hat on in readiness for the hate mail!) You'll enjoy the Tiger Club - good luck!
EnnTwo:
Stefan did go to Oman after the RAF, to join SOAF, and was the display pilot whilst there - I think (but I'm not sure) on the Jaguar. He was killed in a Pitts whilst visiting his fanily in New Zealand, not in a display. The Accident Investigation didn't really discover the cause of the crash. He had hundreds of hours in the Pitts, having been a Rothmans display pilot for quite a long time. It was one of those "No other cause found, so must be pilot error etc" reports. No-one who knew Stefan agreed!
I agree that the first Bearcat display at Biggin was outstanding - I was there with him. People on the display circuit talked about it for a long time afterwards.
You may be interested to know that it was the first time he'd EVER flown a Bearcat. He took off from Biggin, warmed up for 10 minutes, and then came in to perform an amazing display. A truly outstanding pilot who showed off the aircraft, not himself.
My introduction to Warbirds was a ride in the back of Stephen Grey's Mustang (Stef flying) - a mixture of formation/dogfighting with Ray Hanna in his Spitfire Mk IX, to open the airshow at West Malling one year. An experience I will never forget, and I was hooked! I joined Ray Hanna a few hears later when Stef was killed.
I agree that there was little to choose between the two as display pilots - it's difficult to judge between two superlatives. But,IMHO, Ray Hanna displaying the Spitfire remains unbeatable.
[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 15 September 2000).]
Glad to read that you found the Tiger Club. I haven't flown there for some years but, unless it's changed a lot (which I doubt) it's one of the best places to learn aeros. Members are always happy to help, and you get to fly with experienced aerobatic pilots.
I think the oldest Tiger Moth to which you refer is G-ACDC.
The Tiger is an important part of our aviation heritage, gives you a real sense of history, and takes skill to fly well. But, IMHO, it's not nearly as much fun to fly as the Stampe which is much more responsive, and is an excellent a/c in which to learn aeros. (I've got my tin hat on in readiness for the hate mail!) You'll enjoy the Tiger Club - good luck!
EnnTwo:
Stefan did go to Oman after the RAF, to join SOAF, and was the display pilot whilst there - I think (but I'm not sure) on the Jaguar. He was killed in a Pitts whilst visiting his fanily in New Zealand, not in a display. The Accident Investigation didn't really discover the cause of the crash. He had hundreds of hours in the Pitts, having been a Rothmans display pilot for quite a long time. It was one of those "No other cause found, so must be pilot error etc" reports. No-one who knew Stefan agreed!
I agree that the first Bearcat display at Biggin was outstanding - I was there with him. People on the display circuit talked about it for a long time afterwards.
You may be interested to know that it was the first time he'd EVER flown a Bearcat. He took off from Biggin, warmed up for 10 minutes, and then came in to perform an amazing display. A truly outstanding pilot who showed off the aircraft, not himself.
My introduction to Warbirds was a ride in the back of Stephen Grey's Mustang (Stef flying) - a mixture of formation/dogfighting with Ray Hanna in his Spitfire Mk IX, to open the airshow at West Malling one year. An experience I will never forget, and I was hooked! I joined Ray Hanna a few hears later when Stef was killed.
I agree that there was little to choose between the two as display pilots - it's difficult to judge between two superlatives. But,IMHO, Ray Hanna displaying the Spitfire remains unbeatable.
[This message has been edited by Flying Lawyer (edited 15 September 2000).]
Guest
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Generally it helps to be ex ETPS which seems fair enough, those guys are trained to cope with anything.
Otherwise get to some stupidly high rank (sorry, get some stupid *anker) in the RAF like an Air Vice Marshmallow and then you get to crash irreplaceable aircraft like the Gustav because you know all about flying because you once flew Hunters, or Lightnings, or Vulcans, or something equally as relevant.
GRRRRRRR!!!!!
Otherwise get to some stupidly high rank (sorry, get some stupid *anker) in the RAF like an Air Vice Marshmallow and then you get to crash irreplaceable aircraft like the Gustav because you know all about flying because you once flew Hunters, or Lightnings, or Vulcans, or something equally as relevant.
GRRRRRRR!!!!!
Guest
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In all this recherche du temps perdu I do not see any mention of the Percival Provost T.1 with Alvis Leonides 550 H.P. engine, with CSU. The RAF must have had many of them. Are there none still around?
It was very aerobatic. Great fun to fly. RPM at 2,600 and boost at zero gave 120 kts. With those settings and by pulling the column back suddenly when the aircraft least expected it, one could do a 360 degree flick roll, and in fact carry on with them almost continuously. I believe this was streng verboten, but since my instructor had shown me how to do it I thought it venial rather than mortal and occasionally indulged the whim.
It was very aerobatic. Great fun to fly. RPM at 2,600 and boost at zero gave 120 kts. With those settings and by pulling the column back suddenly when the aircraft least expected it, one could do a 360 degree flick roll, and in fact carry on with them almost continuously. I believe this was streng verboten, but since my instructor had shown me how to do it I thought it venial rather than mortal and occasionally indulged the whim.
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Pinger:
(1) Only a very small percentage of warbird pilots are ex-ETPS.
(2) The two current warbird pilots who achieved "stupidly high rank" in the RAF (one retired last year) are invited to fly them because of their flying ability, NOT because of the rank they achieved. Both continued to fly fighters throughout their careers, even after achieving high rank, and both have flown warbirds on the display circuit for years.
Not everyone who achieves high rank is a *anker.
It seems from some of your other posts that you may be a little anti-RAF. Is there a history? (It doesn't bother me - I've been a civvy all my career.)
To borrow your phrase from a recent post - just curious!
(1) Only a very small percentage of warbird pilots are ex-ETPS.
(2) The two current warbird pilots who achieved "stupidly high rank" in the RAF (one retired last year) are invited to fly them because of their flying ability, NOT because of the rank they achieved. Both continued to fly fighters throughout their careers, even after achieving high rank, and both have flown warbirds on the display circuit for years.
Not everyone who achieves high rank is a *anker.
It seems from some of your other posts that you may be a little anti-RAF. Is there a history? (It doesn't bother me - I've been a civvy all my career.)
To borrow your phrase from a recent post - just curious!
Guest
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I fly (ir)regularly for the Harvard Club of South Africa. Here it is almost without exeption ex-mil pilots who fly the aircraft at airshows or for skytyping, but we do supply training on our aircraft if you have taildragger time and are prepared to pay. We will also take pax up for aero's or just a little look-see.
Current prices are around R1600 per hour for passengers and a bit more for instruction (that's about 160 UK pounds).
We have aircraft based near Johannesburg and near Cape Town and I have taken quite a few BA and Lufthansa crew and other tourists for aero's out of Stellenbosch (Cape Town).
Please email me if you are interested and I will try and arrange things for you.
We have 9 AT6/Harvard II/III aircraft and have to utilise them to keep them going. In Cape Town you can also get flights in a Lightning, Buccaneer, Strikemaster or Hunter from ThunderJets. Not cheap though.
I agree with the other posts. If you are not ex-mil, try and get lots of taildragger time and work your way up to higher performance aircraft. The problem with these warbirds is that they are irreplaceable and if you do not have a well known track record, no-one will let you in the cockpit.
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It is much easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.
Current prices are around R1600 per hour for passengers and a bit more for instruction (that's about 160 UK pounds).
We have aircraft based near Johannesburg and near Cape Town and I have taken quite a few BA and Lufthansa crew and other tourists for aero's out of Stellenbosch (Cape Town).
Please email me if you are interested and I will try and arrange things for you.
We have 9 AT6/Harvard II/III aircraft and have to utilise them to keep them going. In Cape Town you can also get flights in a Lightning, Buccaneer, Strikemaster or Hunter from ThunderJets. Not cheap though.
I agree with the other posts. If you are not ex-mil, try and get lots of taildragger time and work your way up to higher performance aircraft. The problem with these warbirds is that they are irreplaceable and if you do not have a well known track record, no-one will let you in the cockpit.
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It is much easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.
Guest
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Good luck in your quest - I to would love to fly some of these machines, and have for some time now been flying a wide variety of vintage taildraggers, but only up to light a/c size with a little Harvard time a few years ago - I even KNOW someone with a Spit, but even offering to cut of my right arm (but only after I had flown it) did not get me the flight. Its that old aviation addage - you can't fly it unless you have flown it before.
Guest
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How did that chap De Cadanet manage it then,with as far as I know, only a modest GA background?
Remember a few years back on some Channel 4 program he flew one,as he pointed out on Sunday at the Biggin Hill BBC tribute to the Battle Of Britain, -where, worringly, he threatened to do it again-but it seemed to come to nothing-at least I never saw him.
Remember a few years back on some Channel 4 program he flew one,as he pointed out on Sunday at the Biggin Hill BBC tribute to the Battle Of Britain, -where, worringly, he threatened to do it again-but it seemed to come to nothing-at least I never saw him.
Guest
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Although aerobatic experience is a prerequisite for display flying, I think that some kind of formal formation flying training is equally important. Thats where the ex-military pilots have the edge on the civvies.I've been following the path described by eager beaver for a few years now, and am now a reasonably competent tailwheel and aerobatic pilot, with a quarter share in a Christen Eagle II. However, whilst I'm quite happy to fly fairly close to other aircraft, I think I would really benefit from some good instruction. Anyone know of a place I can find it? BTW I flew one of the SA Harvards and can thoroughly recommend it...affordable(compared to the UK) and exciting flying at a lovely airfield in the wine region of Capetown. If you're at Stellenbosch, look up some of the Smirnoff pilots. I did a couple of hours of advanced spin training in an S2B, and learnt quite a bit.
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Waldo Pepper
One of the best opportunities for a civilian pilot to get military - run formation flying training is at the Formation Flying weeks held at North Weald twice a year in Yak 52's. Each course is run by a RAF Squadron Leader with current and past RAF pilots and top civilian pilots as instructors. Each aircraft has an instructor in the back seat for each flight. Guaranteed to be some of the best flying you have ever done. You fly 3 / 4 sorties a day and for a novice particularly, it is very hard work especially for the first few days.
I would recommend getting time in a Yak 52 before signing on for the course.
The quality of instruction is unparalleled and apart from "basic" formation flying, you can move onto formation aeros, tailchasing, combat etc....
Oh, and you need your own Yak 52...unless you have a friend who will lend you one.
Compton Abbas also hold formation flying courses - several weekends throughout the summer thought the Yak Club.
One of the best opportunities for a civilian pilot to get military - run formation flying training is at the Formation Flying weeks held at North Weald twice a year in Yak 52's. Each course is run by a RAF Squadron Leader with current and past RAF pilots and top civilian pilots as instructors. Each aircraft has an instructor in the back seat for each flight. Guaranteed to be some of the best flying you have ever done. You fly 3 / 4 sorties a day and for a novice particularly, it is very hard work especially for the first few days.
I would recommend getting time in a Yak 52 before signing on for the course.
The quality of instruction is unparalleled and apart from "basic" formation flying, you can move onto formation aeros, tailchasing, combat etc....
Oh, and you need your own Yak 52...unless you have a friend who will lend you one.
Compton Abbas also hold formation flying courses - several weekends throughout the summer thought the Yak Club.
Guest
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Waldo Pepper.
Glad to hear we have at least one happy customer.
If you are in Cape Town during November to March, we normally have 5 a/c at Stellenbosch and we can take pax for formo sorties. I don't know whether our resident instructors will let the pax pole in close formo, but we will give you some pointers and show the formation positions and references. We also have an annual airshow at the end of March and you can see the Lightning, Buccaneer, Strikemaster, Hunter and various aerobatic teams in action. On the second day (Sunday), flips are available in the Pitts and Harvards and most pax opt for some formation flying in the Harvards or formo aeros in the Smirnoff Pitts.
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It is much easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.
[This message has been edited by nugpot (edited 19 September 2000).]
Glad to hear we have at least one happy customer.
If you are in Cape Town during November to March, we normally have 5 a/c at Stellenbosch and we can take pax for formo sorties. I don't know whether our resident instructors will let the pax pole in close formo, but we will give you some pointers and show the formation positions and references. We also have an annual airshow at the end of March and you can see the Lightning, Buccaneer, Strikemaster, Hunter and various aerobatic teams in action. On the second day (Sunday), flips are available in the Pitts and Harvards and most pax opt for some formation flying in the Harvards or formo aeros in the Smirnoff Pitts.
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It is much easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.
[This message has been edited by nugpot (edited 19 September 2000).]
Guest
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Noisy Hooligan
Hate to detract from your advert - sorry, posting - but classic warbird flying is about handling torque, limited vision, tailwheel landings, large dollops of power on tap and the handling characteristics of aircraft designed when human life was regarded as cheaper than it is now.
Nothing in common with a JP there then.
And anybody buying a JP with a view to displaying it would be joining the back of a long, long queue.
Hate to detract from your advert - sorry, posting - but classic warbird flying is about handling torque, limited vision, tailwheel landings, large dollops of power on tap and the handling characteristics of aircraft designed when human life was regarded as cheaper than it is now.
Nothing in common with a JP there then.
And anybody buying a JP with a view to displaying it would be joining the back of a long, long queue.
