To Dallas Dude
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To Dallas Dude
Hey DD,
A friend of mine is thinking of putting in an application form with AA.
Would you know if they are hiring low hour pilots at this time?
She is about to do the ATP Part 121 exam here
in Sydney. Could you let me know and send me an email if they are hiring.
thanks
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Pull up - pull up !!! - What do you want me to pull ?
[This message has been edited by Thrust Reverser (edited 05 December 2000).]
A friend of mine is thinking of putting in an application form with AA.
Would you know if they are hiring low hour pilots at this time?
She is about to do the ATP Part 121 exam here
in Sydney. Could you let me know and send me an email if they are hiring.
thanks
------------------------------
Pull up - pull up !!! - What do you want me to pull ?
[This message has been edited by Thrust Reverser (edited 05 December 2000).]
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Hey TR, I`ll put this back to the top for you so DD might see it. I also fly out of DFW but not for AA unfortunatly and can tell you that AA have at least 10,000 qualified applicants on file. We had an intern on our jump seat the other day, basically the chief pilots lackey who shares a room with one of the recruitment chaps. The scoop at the moment is fairly low time is acceptable if it is military, he said currently 70-80% of new hires are military. If your background is civilian the minimum to be comptitive is 4-5000 hours including significant turbine airline PIC time and at least a bachelors degree. The previous CP was a bit more willing to hire folks on personal recomendation so there are many exceptions to this already flying the line, but the new chap in charge has eliminated that and as a former marine aviator, well need I say more.? Its a tough nut to crack but well worth the effort, hopefully DD or someone closer to the action can give a more accuracte account from the inside. Good luck!!!!!
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Thrust Reverser & Flite Idol,
I also work for AA, and will be visiting the "schoolhouse" next week. I'll be happy to look at the latest hiring figures (hours, etc.) that are available.
Thrust Reverser - how many hours are you talking about when you say "low hour pilots"? (2000 hours may mean "low hour" to one person, but "high hour" to another). In my new-hire class the class average (military and civilian) was 4000 hours. That was a couple of years ago, but like Flite Idol said, the stack of applications from qualified applicants is still quite high.
As I said, I can try to find out the latest information. The company periodically releases compiled new-hire data, so hopefully it won't be too out-of-date.
I also work for AA, and will be visiting the "schoolhouse" next week. I'll be happy to look at the latest hiring figures (hours, etc.) that are available.
Thrust Reverser - how many hours are you talking about when you say "low hour pilots"? (2000 hours may mean "low hour" to one person, but "high hour" to another). In my new-hire class the class average (military and civilian) was 4000 hours. That was a couple of years ago, but like Flite Idol said, the stack of applications from qualified applicants is still quite high.
As I said, I can try to find out the latest information. The company periodically releases compiled new-hire data, so hopefully it won't be too out-of-date.
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Flite Idol and McD
Thanks guys.
McD, I'd appreciate it very much if you can find out for me any inside news on hirings.
When I said low hour - I mean low hour like 300 hrs total time with almost no hope at all of competing with the ones you have just described.
So guys, any idea where I would find in the big US of A who will hire a really low hour CPL and help out.
She is willing to start out in a small airline flying pistons or turbines if she can be trained.
Anybody in the inside who we can bribe ? -
just kidding fellas.
TR
[This message has been edited by Thrust Reverser (edited 11 December 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Thrust Reverser (edited 11 December 2000).]
Thanks guys.
McD, I'd appreciate it very much if you can find out for me any inside news on hirings.
When I said low hour - I mean low hour like 300 hrs total time with almost no hope at all of competing with the ones you have just described.
So guys, any idea where I would find in the big US of A who will hire a really low hour CPL and help out.
She is willing to start out in a small airline flying pistons or turbines if she can be trained.
Anybody in the inside who we can bribe ? -
just kidding fellas.
TR
[This message has been edited by Thrust Reverser (edited 11 December 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Thrust Reverser (edited 11 December 2000).]
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Snakum,
Yes, there are some airlines that offer sponsorships or "apprentice"-type training programs to low-hours pilots such as TR's friend. As far as I know (I could be wrong), there are no USA-based airlines who do this.
Thrust Reverser
I won't be at the American Airlines schoolhouse until later this week (Thursday). In the meantime, I've done some research that I hope is helpful to your friend. I am not an expert in any way, but here is what I have found so far:
Out of all of the major airlines who list total-time hours requirements on their websites, the minimum total time listed is 1000 hours. However, most listed 1200-1500 hours TT as a minimum. There were also additional sub-requirements listed such as turbine or multi-engine time (anywhere from 300-1000 minimum hours listed), PIC time (300-700 hours), and instrument time. All require a commercial certificate with an instrument rating as well. Even on the commuter airline side, many companies require in the neighborhood of 1000 hours TT. There are some exceptions, especially if the candidate has acquired an aviation degree or has completed other "formal" types of training such as a military flight school or civilian flight academy program. One commuter airline categorizes "0 to 1200 hour pilots" as "pilots with little to no experience" and the only thing they offer you is the opportunity to apply to their academy (and you pay the training costs).
As an aside, I personally detest gloom-and-doom or "naysayer" mindsets, so I do wish your friend all the best in her future flying career. Hopefully she won't be deterred from flying by the above facts, but will instead see the reality of her need for more flying experience. I commend her initiative in preparing for the ATP written exam. However, that exam is only one small step in the entire process, and more hours/experience is what is really needed. Applying to a major US airline with 300 hours is akin to applying for a PHD program with only a high-school education. The analogy may be a bit exaggerated, but you get the point that some very important steps are being skipped. The bottom line is that she needs to fly more: work toward increased ratings, certificates, and overall experience; consider becoming an instructor; consider hours-building in countries where the flying costs are relatively low. If she keeps working at it, she should attain her goals eventually.
Feel free to e-mail me (or have her e-mail me) directly if more info is needed. I'll post another reply after I get the info from AA.
Yes, there are some airlines that offer sponsorships or "apprentice"-type training programs to low-hours pilots such as TR's friend. As far as I know (I could be wrong), there are no USA-based airlines who do this.
Thrust Reverser
I won't be at the American Airlines schoolhouse until later this week (Thursday). In the meantime, I've done some research that I hope is helpful to your friend. I am not an expert in any way, but here is what I have found so far:
Out of all of the major airlines who list total-time hours requirements on their websites, the minimum total time listed is 1000 hours. However, most listed 1200-1500 hours TT as a minimum. There were also additional sub-requirements listed such as turbine or multi-engine time (anywhere from 300-1000 minimum hours listed), PIC time (300-700 hours), and instrument time. All require a commercial certificate with an instrument rating as well. Even on the commuter airline side, many companies require in the neighborhood of 1000 hours TT. There are some exceptions, especially if the candidate has acquired an aviation degree or has completed other "formal" types of training such as a military flight school or civilian flight academy program. One commuter airline categorizes "0 to 1200 hour pilots" as "pilots with little to no experience" and the only thing they offer you is the opportunity to apply to their academy (and you pay the training costs).
As an aside, I personally detest gloom-and-doom or "naysayer" mindsets, so I do wish your friend all the best in her future flying career. Hopefully she won't be deterred from flying by the above facts, but will instead see the reality of her need for more flying experience. I commend her initiative in preparing for the ATP written exam. However, that exam is only one small step in the entire process, and more hours/experience is what is really needed. Applying to a major US airline with 300 hours is akin to applying for a PHD program with only a high-school education. The analogy may be a bit exaggerated, but you get the point that some very important steps are being skipped. The bottom line is that she needs to fly more: work toward increased ratings, certificates, and overall experience; consider becoming an instructor; consider hours-building in countries where the flying costs are relatively low. If she keeps working at it, she should attain her goals eventually.
Feel free to e-mail me (or have her e-mail me) directly if more info is needed. I'll post another reply after I get the info from AA.
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Your friend might like to try applying to Great Lakes or Chitaqua ( can't even spell it ! ), I know they have hired some low time pilots recently.
Here at AA we are averaging 4000-hrs plus for new hires, and that probably holds for the other majors.
Good luck to her......
Here at AA we are averaging 4000-hrs plus for new hires, and that probably holds for the other majors.
Good luck to her......
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I got hired with AA a month ago, 11000 hours.
As mentioned earlier, yes as a civilian you need a bunch of experience and time, including Pilot In Command time, to be considered.
In my class of 54 souls, only 4 or 5 are civilians. The rest is US Air-Force, Navy and the token Marine.
McD, Wino and RRAAm, ya guys in the Ballpark
Inn these days? Stop by room 201.
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Men, this is no drill...
[This message has been edited by TowerDog (edited 14 December 2000).]
As mentioned earlier, yes as a civilian you need a bunch of experience and time, including Pilot In Command time, to be considered.
In my class of 54 souls, only 4 or 5 are civilians. The rest is US Air-Force, Navy and the token Marine.
McD, Wino and RRAAm, ya guys in the Ballpark
Inn these days? Stop by room 201.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...
[This message has been edited by TowerDog (edited 14 December 2000).]
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McD and the troops,
I have had discussions with my friend about her objectives and what course of action to take at this early stage of her career and believe me we spent about fifteen hours planning/discussing where to borrow more money and where to get her first job and so on. I realize she needs more hours that's why
I myself is helping her out and I think I am about to have a breakthrough in talking somebody into getting her into a jump pilot job to build hours dropping skydivers. If her financing fails I am thinking of lending her the money to finance her instructor rating and hopefully gets her into a more marketable position. I know the family and I have a feeling I will have to write off or put off my expectation to have this money recovered on a short span of time.
Somebody did this for me once and I am just repaying that good deed to me.
The other plan is to get her into an airline
which can sponsor her or take her in as is
(low hour) and train her. She had her sights for EU as well which hires low hour pilots but we'll see what the US has to offer.
In regards to RRAMJET's suggestion, I'll mention it and in her own words "BEGGARS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS" and I'll say she'll explore every possibility - I would.
Guys, any helpful info would be much appreciated - anything. She came to me for help that's why I am hoping you would be able to help her too. I think this would fall under the category " Brotherhood of Pilots ". Let's help her out guys.
Thrust Reverser
I have had discussions with my friend about her objectives and what course of action to take at this early stage of her career and believe me we spent about fifteen hours planning/discussing where to borrow more money and where to get her first job and so on. I realize she needs more hours that's why
I myself is helping her out and I think I am about to have a breakthrough in talking somebody into getting her into a jump pilot job to build hours dropping skydivers. If her financing fails I am thinking of lending her the money to finance her instructor rating and hopefully gets her into a more marketable position. I know the family and I have a feeling I will have to write off or put off my expectation to have this money recovered on a short span of time.
Somebody did this for me once and I am just repaying that good deed to me.
The other plan is to get her into an airline
which can sponsor her or take her in as is
(low hour) and train her. She had her sights for EU as well which hires low hour pilots but we'll see what the US has to offer.
In regards to RRAMJET's suggestion, I'll mention it and in her own words "BEGGARS CAN'T BE CHOOSERS" and I'll say she'll explore every possibility - I would.
Guys, any helpful info would be much appreciated - anything. She came to me for help that's why I am hoping you would be able to help her too. I think this would fall under the category " Brotherhood of Pilots ". Let's help her out guys.
Thrust Reverser
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Towerdog.
Ahhhh, the ballpark... The blue hair lounge... All those old women at that bar are the same women that were the "puget Dares" from "An Officer and Gentleman" and they are still looking to pick up a pilot <G>.
Good secret. There is a little Thai food shop virtually right next door that is hidden. A good five dollar dinner of PadThai. Go out the ball park and turn left. Go to the all you can eat pizza place and enter that little strip mall. ON the other side of the laundry is a thai shop, but they never changed the sign from a mexican chicken stand. Trust me, its good.
I'll stop by one day.
I am in the maistay till the 17th of Jan.
Cheers
Wino
Ahhhh, the ballpark... The blue hair lounge... All those old women at that bar are the same women that were the "puget Dares" from "An Officer and Gentleman" and they are still looking to pick up a pilot <G>.
Good secret. There is a little Thai food shop virtually right next door that is hidden. A good five dollar dinner of PadThai. Go out the ball park and turn left. Go to the all you can eat pizza place and enter that little strip mall. ON the other side of the laundry is a thai shop, but they never changed the sign from a mexican chicken stand. Trust me, its good.
I'll stop by one day.
I am in the maistay till the 17th of Jan.
Cheers
Wino
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TR ...
I apologize for sounding so flippant in my earlier post, it's just that there are probably thousands of low-hour (300 TT) CPLs here in the US who are in the same boat as your friend. In the States we unfortunately don't have the kind of internship programs available from BA, KLM, etc. where a newbie pilot can attend airline-specific training from day one and be in the right seat of an airliner 300 hours later. We have somewhat similar schemes that can be had for LOTS of money and no guarantee of a job after the 250-hours of regional SIC (Gulfstream, et al). Quite different, that.
However, based on the shortage of flight instructors in some parts of the country your friend may be able to find a small school that would sponsor an H1B visa for a CFI. Does she instruct? That's the general route here to the airlines. Instructing often leads to right seat 135 charter time after around 1000 hrs, but wouldn't she have to convert her licenses to FAA before she could instruct here? Also the H1B visa is a bitch to get folks to deal with, but it IS possible.
An idea ... I've seen ads for CFIs at some of the larger flying schools like E-R, Comair, and such. A larger school like that would perhaps be more knowlegable about visa and licensing requirements and may even be interested in a CV if she is already an instructor. Give one of them a call and try to speak with a manager-type person, as opposed to an admin flunky who may just firewall you.
Good luck to her,
Snakum
I apologize for sounding so flippant in my earlier post, it's just that there are probably thousands of low-hour (300 TT) CPLs here in the US who are in the same boat as your friend. In the States we unfortunately don't have the kind of internship programs available from BA, KLM, etc. where a newbie pilot can attend airline-specific training from day one and be in the right seat of an airliner 300 hours later. We have somewhat similar schemes that can be had for LOTS of money and no guarantee of a job after the 250-hours of regional SIC (Gulfstream, et al). Quite different, that.
However, based on the shortage of flight instructors in some parts of the country your friend may be able to find a small school that would sponsor an H1B visa for a CFI. Does she instruct? That's the general route here to the airlines. Instructing often leads to right seat 135 charter time after around 1000 hrs, but wouldn't she have to convert her licenses to FAA before she could instruct here? Also the H1B visa is a bitch to get folks to deal with, but it IS possible.
An idea ... I've seen ads for CFIs at some of the larger flying schools like E-R, Comair, and such. A larger school like that would perhaps be more knowlegable about visa and licensing requirements and may even be interested in a CV if she is already an instructor. Give one of them a call and try to speak with a manager-type person, as opposed to an admin flunky who may just firewall you.
Good luck to her,
Snakum
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Wino:
Thanks for Thai tip.
Some recent changes in plans:
I quit my job with AA.
Got sick and tired of ground school.
Could not do it anymore. (Burned out pilot)
I was only sitting in class day dreaming about sailing and diving the sunny Carribbiean.
Going to do just that.
Sailing my boat South next month. (She is paid for)
Wife is divorcing me and most friends think I ma nuts.
Perhaps so. AA is a good place to work and I have no complains about the company or the training or anything.
Going to need a crew member or two: Any volunteers out there?
(No monkeys need apply, this will be a tough passage beating into the wind and waves all the time.)
It can take a month island hopping the Bahamas, then Turks and Caicos, then etc.
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Men, this is no drill...
Thanks for Thai tip.
Some recent changes in plans:
I quit my job with AA.
Got sick and tired of ground school.
Could not do it anymore. (Burned out pilot)
I was only sitting in class day dreaming about sailing and diving the sunny Carribbiean.
Going to do just that.
Sailing my boat South next month. (She is paid for)
Wife is divorcing me and most friends think I ma nuts.
Perhaps so. AA is a good place to work and I have no complains about the company or the training or anything.
Going to need a crew member or two: Any volunteers out there?
(No monkeys need apply, this will be a tough passage beating into the wind and waves all the time.)
It can take a month island hopping the Bahamas, then Turks and Caicos, then etc.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...
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Okay:
If ya are serious, e-mail me at [email protected]
That is also the type of boat: CSY 33, cutter rigged sloop.
Ya pay for airfare and your own food, I pay diesel and rum. (and maintenance, insurance, etc.)
Boat is well maintained and safe with recent upgrades including SSB. (HF Radio) 4 big anchors, all High Test chain rode, new sails, strong engine, etc.
Oh, and fax resume on 1-954-467-2391.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...
If ya are serious, e-mail me at [email protected]
That is also the type of boat: CSY 33, cutter rigged sloop.
Ya pay for airfare and your own food, I pay diesel and rum. (and maintenance, insurance, etc.)
Boat is well maintained and safe with recent upgrades including SSB. (HF Radio) 4 big anchors, all High Test chain rode, new sails, strong engine, etc.
Oh, and fax resume on 1-954-467-2391.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...
Guest
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Snakum,
Thank you for the info. I'll keep a copy of your suggestion and as I said in the previous post we will try everything - no stone unturned basically. All possibilities will be explored. - Thanks and best regards to you and your family this Christmas.
Happy and safe flying.....
TR
Thank you for the info. I'll keep a copy of your suggestion and as I said in the previous post we will try everything - no stone unturned basically. All possibilities will be explored. - Thanks and best regards to you and your family this Christmas.
Happy and safe flying.....
TR
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Uh, no lap top and digital camera.
Those things with salt water is like cat and dog.
It will be a tough trip down there as one will be pushing into wind and waves all the time. (Head wind)
Also occasionally wet and cold.
Nothing to glamourous with the trip down.
Once ya are in the island, the tradewinds make for some of the world best sailing.
Same with the scenery: First class.
Look for me in STX in a month or 2.
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Men, this is no drill...
Those things with salt water is like cat and dog.
It will be a tough trip down there as one will be pushing into wind and waves all the time. (Head wind)
Also occasionally wet and cold.
Nothing to glamourous with the trip down.
Once ya are in the island, the tradewinds make for some of the world best sailing.
Same with the scenery: First class.
Look for me in STX in a month or 2.
------------------
Men, this is no drill...